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Oct 25 2010

For those of you that can’t wait for the launch of BBC One HD on the 3rd November 2010, the channel has appeared this morning for testing.

Obviously this is just a test channel for now, so won’t carry full television listings etc, but if you want to take a look, you’ll just need to add the frequency information manually (the method of doing this will vary from receiver to receiver):

Channel ID: 6941
Frequency: 10.84700 GHz
Polarisation: V (vertical)
Symbol rate: 22.0 Mbaud
FEC: 5/6

149 Responses to “BBC One HD Now Testing”

  1. Peter Shillito Says:

    Typical for this to happen while I’m on holiday. Hopefully it’s still there when I get back.

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  2. Soul4real Says:

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  3. Billy Darragh Says:

    When will U.TV HD be on Freesat.

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  4. Lee b Says:

    Can anyone see the bitrate and resolution?

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  5. Lee b Says:

    Everyone should read naglers comments via the above link, love it when she says HD is more forgiving than expected, well at the Low HD resolution and bitrate the BBC use I’m not suprised. Can’t believe the BBC have been testing ultra HD when they say the old bitrate of 16 meg was unsupportable.

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  6. Dan M Says:

    Seems to be running anywhere between 4>15Mb/s

    Audio AC3 @ 384 Kbps

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  7. Al Catraz Says:

    Got excited for a moment there – but all that’s on now is a test card and some very nice high pitched tones – slightly more interesting than drying paint. I think I can wait a week…

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  8. admin Says:

    @Al Catraz

    It was playing programmes before, otherwise we’d not have mentioned it. It will be a mix of different things over the next few days as expected for a pre-launch test channel.

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  9. Al Catraz Says:

    Admin: I thought that – my comments were a bit tongue-in-cheek ;)

    I’ve just read the Danelle Nagler article, and there’s one slightly worrying comment:
    “However, any new BBC channels must always be made available on the subscription-free Freeview platform”.
    Does this mean the limitations of freeview will restrict future BBC HD channels on freesat?

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  10. bigal Says:

    @ 7 Al Catraz

    The Testcard is part of the standard BBC HD Preview and that is what 6941 BBC One HD Test is showing right now.

    As Admin says, It is just a test channel at the moment.

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  11. Frazer Palmer Says:

    Good news, but daren’t meddle with the freesat receiver manually! Especially for a test card!

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  12. Keith Says:

    I’m a little concerned that BBC1 HD may not appear on 3rd Nov, since the channels announced in the previous rescan announcement (19th Oct) have not yet appeared on my Humax/Foxsat HDR. Nor have the changes of 14th appeared.

    I think there was also a week or so delay before new channels appeared after a prior rescan announcement (4th Oct).

    Has anyone else experienced this?

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  13. Neil Says:

    Had a sneak earlier, it looks like they are playing the BBC HD promo, albeit there’s no DOG at present. Bitrate and PQ generally looks good, it’s carrying now and next EPG data for network BBC1 programmes.

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  14. satom Says:

    actually its BBC1 HD EPG now and next

    (“This is BBC One HD

    Please switch over to BBC One for the latest news from your area. Programming will resume on BBC One HD after the bulletin”)

    So they will not carry London News ?

    And: will this be the BBC 1 HD home or will they switch like the freesat IDs will so this will become the new home for BBC HD UK? Just curious …

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  15. Neil Says:

    It appears not which is a big “hurrah” for all of us outside of the M25! Glad to see it looks like the BBC are going to make it neutral in terms of regionalism rather than just take the London feed. What would be really good would be a red button option to take you to 101 for your local news and then back to 108 once back in network. I believe on Freeview HD they’ve been trialling a [coloured] button option during BBC1/BBCHD simulcasts so maybe we can expect the same on Freesat.

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  16. ian Says:

    unless im a compleate dumb ass here, but ive just tried to add that and all i get when ive wacked in the frequency is ”no channels found” which is weird!

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  17. Peter Says:

    >Neil
    The Freeview HD switching (at least on the Humax HDFoxT2) throws up a “Watch in HD” flag on the top left which works by pressing the OK button.

    It is on all BBC channels apart obviously from BBC HD as appropriate so the BBC2. 3 etc simulcasts are flagged too.

    >satom
    The info at the moment during Breakfast is exactly as on the SD channel including mention of regional news at 25 and 55 minutes past each hour. Most likely will have upscaled News and regional news/programmes using the London feed but with an oversized caption like the start of ITV1 HD

    Incidentally, I note that STV HD does not carry Daybreak even though the SD version does. Just a slide saying programmes start at 9.25. Thought Daybreak was in HD – even though I don’t watch it.

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  18. Neil Says:

    So it’s not on one of the coloured buttons? Maybe they can make the same thing work on the Foxsat + other Freesat receivers too? We’ll have to wait and see.

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  19. Phil Owens Says:

    Not getting the test on my Bush HD box. It just tunes one channel in with FEC at 3/4.

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  20. satom Says:

    @ 17 Peter
    you can only spot the difference this is indeed a specific One HD now and next during the regional news – extend the program information for the regional news and you get what I copied: BBC One HD and the please turn to SD text

    @19 Phil Owens
    all three are at 5/6 not 3/4

    10847 V
    DVB-S/MPEG-4 22000 5/6

    Should be tuned in in non freesat mode

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  21. Phil Owens Says:

    @ 20 satcom.
    I seem to be getting it now. Don’t know what happened before.
    Was showing some strange test card, now showing BBC HD preview, no now and next thogh..

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  22. satom Says:

    BBC One HD is showing the same trailers and tests as BBC HD UK at preview times – part of it is the strange testcard with image/sound latency testing

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  23. satom@trash-mail.com Says:

    @ Phil Owens

    no now and then? You sure you haven’t got 6945? (with DOG BBC HD Preview

    BBC One HD now shwing BBC one HD Dog upper left corner – nearly absolut transparent and no annoyance for me at all

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  24. Degs Says:

    Tuned it in straight away on my bush box. Flicking between BBC HD and the test channel the preview or content are not the same. Difficult to tell when comparing different content but the test channel quality seems better

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  25. satom Says:

    now joined BBC SD programming

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  26. satom Says:

    yes … now showing preview loop again, I guess they will switch back and forth until official channel start date …

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  27. bigal Says:

    Oh dear. The ONE in the BBC one HD Dog is a tad on the large side is it not?.

    Could I suggest BBC 1 HD instead.

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  28. satom Says:

    these days coporate identity and marketing is mre important than intelligence, common sense r beauty … the bbc 1 identity throughout is one and three in small letters, TWO and FOUR in capitals

    so Im afraid they won’t change it – but I would have suspectected they would style the one smaller and the HD a bit more prominent

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  29. bigal Says:

    Point taken satom.

    If it must be shown as ‘one’ then I agree it should be smaller.

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  30. Al Catraz Says:

    dog looks fine to me – almost transparent, so doesn’t show for much of the time.

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  31. John Hereford Says:

    Interesting interview, on Digital Spy – Broadcasting, with Danielle Nagler the BBC’s Head of HD, on future technologies.

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  32. Russ Says:

    The kennel Club has informed me that they will not now be bringing KCTV hd to freesat as there seems to be a too strong anti-dog lobby.

    only joking !!!

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  33. satom Says:

    apart from that the DOGs will be replaced by centered advertising tapes, placed right in the middle of the screen

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  34. satom Says:

    seems testing is done for now – for some time just showing info card about ID switches with BBC HD UK and launch date

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  35. bigal Says:

    The info card satom refers to states “BBC HD can now be found on Freesat 109″.

    This would suggest that Freesat will perform an Update to put One HD on ch 108 before Nov 3rd with BBC one showing the card until launch at 7pm.

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  36. satom Says:

    remember this is only a test channel – not be be viewed by the freesat public yet.

    I guess when they switch freesat IDs this card will be shown on the then former BBC HD UK channel – hopefully for a short time only preferred during the preview time an simulcast until the start of BBC one HD

    don’t know though if they will switch the “real” tp channels as well so BBC one HD (5400) will move to 6940 and HD UK (5500) to 6941 – don’t think so

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  37. ian Says:

    the DOG looks ok to me! ive got it on right now, just a motion card with text on it saying it will launch on the 3rd of nov with the one show!

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  38. djaded Says:

    If the DOG looks like this I won’t bother–unless they take it off for films, drama and live music as they do on the HD channel at the moment. (They can have it rotating in technicolour outside of those genres for me (except natural history, where the DOG is a crime), as I really don’t care how QI looks and will stick with SD.)

    I will miss HD for said genres, but HD production really shines through on SD as well and there isn’t a such a huge gulf between the two versions. But what a waste if it comes to that! *Not* what I pay the licence fee for.

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  39. Neil Says:

    Just checked it out now, that One does look large but the overall DOG is so transparent it’s hardly visible at all. Once the red background disappears and is replaced by proper programming it will be hardly seen so happy with that!

    My guess is that we’ll be due another update scan possibly before the weekend to move BBC HD to 109. The only issue will be people’s series linked programmes which will have to be reset.

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  40. djaded Says:

    The other thing is, no-one as far as I know actually prefers there to be a DOG, so if we have to have a consensus amongst the audience, surely it is that is shouldn’t be there?

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  41. Peter Says:

    >Satom

    Very likely the change will be made tonight – hence the information slide – so that people can set their recordings. Remember this involves an extra channel taking up an existing channel number and an an existing one moving to a new slot.

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  42. Gordon S Valentine Says:

    I hope so!! I love all these news channels that keep getting added :)

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  43. Keith Says:

    Further to my earlier comments re. new channels, they all got added earlier this evening. I’m interested to discover if I have a problem with my setup or whether this was the same for others with a Humax HDR?

    I have 100% signal and quality showing on all main Freesat channels. The exception being Freesat info on 999, France 24 and a few others. It’s not that I’m particularly bothered about the channels as such, just that Freesat info shares the same transponder with the Freesat catalogue (11427MHz, 27500, 2/3) and possibly the programme guide. Channel 999 varies from about 90% signal, 40% quality to 0% for both on occasion. France 24 is always 0% S&Q but that is on 11661MHz. The programme guide is usually slow to update.

    So was just wondering this was unique to me or similar to others experiences? I have a 60cm dish. Since a smallish band of frequencies are involved I also wondered whether it could possibly be WiFi / DECT interference. I tried turning things off, but made little difference – so if it is interference it may be next door and thus out of my control.

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  44. Neil Says:

    Keith, I think it’s down to the Eurobird 1 transponder and in particular their frequency plan. Astra don’t utilise the exact same frequency for Vert and Horiz polarisations which Eutelsat do to cram more active transponders in to, I reckon this has an effect on signal quality as mine is noticeably weaker. I use a Triax TD64 with an Invocom LNB (0.1dB noise figure) and considered one of the better LNB’s in the industry, I only get under 20% signal quality on 11426H on a good day!

    I recently did an installation using a 35mm elliptical minidish and standard quad ‘contract’ LNB, the Freesat home Txp was only giving me 9% quality versus 92% on Astra’s 2A, 2B and 2D. This is using a professional Horizon HDSM meter up the ladder and not just going off the signal strength indications/quality on the receiver which can be misleading. EB1’s C/N was 8.9dB versus Astra 2D at 13.8dB, I can only assume crosstalk between the polarisation is responsible for the much poorer EB1 quality figures which in turn degrades QPSK demodulation.

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  45. Keith Says:

    Thanks Neil for that very comprehensive, informative and interesting answer. I guess I don’t need to be too concerned then. Until the channel updates earlier I was wondering whether I was still getting the updates and thus would miss out on BBC1 HD at launch – and if I should attempt to realign the dish. It would seem there is little I can do about it and hopefully no need for concern. Signal reading were from the receiver – forgot to mention that. Thanks very much once again for your info.

    I think they may have done something a little odd already. Within the past week, recordings for certain programmes scheduled to record as series (for some time) have started to be missed. It has been working flawlessly for months. Mostly cases have been with the HD channel, but also one each on BBC1 (101) and Channel 4. I can understand how there might be issues with programmes shortly moving between the BBC HD channels but not BBC and C4. So I was speculating it might be also be an issue with the 11427 signal, but I don’t think there has been any change with this for me and from what you say, suggests that is not the issue. My guess was that the missed updates might be throwing something out. I not sure I have a clue now, but it will sort itself out after 3rd November.

    I second the hope that BBC1 HD will appear on the guide early to make migration of scheduled recordings easier, but I somehow doubt this will happen.

    Does anyone know if there is a special channel for the guide or if it come as as text on one of the broadcast channels?

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  46. Richard Crichton Says:

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  47. Neil Says:

    Hi Keith, whilst I would expect your receiver to possibly loose lock on 11427 during periods of bad weather, heavy rain fade, there should be enough signal in terms of carrier to noise (C/N) to accommodate lock on the transponder 99% of the time. I’m wondering whether your dish could slightly be off-pan. Where abouts in the UK are you, what size dish and LNB type are you using (quad, dual, single)? The skew on the LNB could also be out, generally they should have a slight angle to accommodate the satellite’s position within the orbital ‘arc’. Check the signal Quality on Movies and Men as this is also on the same transponder.

    I’ve had a couple of programmes fail to record on ITV1HD but that’s an ITV issue, no other programmes from any other channels have failed, suspect the loss of lock on 11427H could be the issue.

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  48. Phil Owens Says:

    @ 23 Satom…
    Getting BBC ONE HD. Don’t know why I’m not getting now & next info, could just be because it’s a crappy Bush box.
    The DOG is rather large but quite transparent so don’t see it as a problem.

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  49. Phil Owens Says:

    @ 23 Satom…
    Getting BBC ONE HD. Don’t know why I’m not getting now & next info, could just be because it’s a crappy Bush box.
    The DOG is rather large but quite transparent so don’t see it as a problem.

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  50. Phil Owens Says:

    Double post there, what happened??

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  51. satom Says:

    happened to me the other day as well – first no show then double … seems they still have some server troubles …

    as for the now and next – strange. Hows your eurbird reception, fe vintage tv?

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  52. Tony Hales Says:

    We need a dog on BBC1 HD so we can tell which is the SD channel and which is the HD one. :-) :-) Just kidding (really).

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  53. Keith Says:

    @46 Richard.

    Wow! Thanks very much for that. It will take me a while to digest all that, but it is very interesting.

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  54. Keith Says:

    Hi Neil,

    Thanks very much once again.  Hopefully others won’t feel this is too far off topic since it may possibly help future diagnosis of various reception problems.

    My first thoughts were that it was an alignment and/or skew issue  

    I’m near the South Coast and according to dishpointer.com the skew should be -14.6.  Would the skew also affect horizontal orientation more than vertical, perhaps?  How much effect does the skew have on reception.  It didn’t appear to affect the vertical orientated channels too greatly, but my tests weren’t exhaustive?

    However, I have to admit I have a decidedly amateur setup at what might also be considered a challenging site.  I live in a bungalow with a larger, taller house to the south.  The dish is a 60cm Sky-style elliptical.  The only viable option was  to mount this atop a sturdy 2″ diameter steel pole (no movement even in very strong winds) looking out clear of my sloping roof and over next door.  The heaviest rain doesn’t noticeably affect the signal.  Because the dish is intended for a Sky 11/4″ pole, mounting this on a 2″ pole has proved a little challenging.  In absence of anything directly suitable, I cobbled together a ‘temporary’ mount from exhaust clamps among other things, which survives heavy winds, but does make adjustments somewhat approximate!  Once I work out a better more secure mount I will switch to that but whilst it was (mostly) working (100%) except for the problem channels, it tended to get left alone under the ‘whilst it’s working…’ principle.

    Actually it’s slightly more complicated since the dish is attached to a now redundant motor drive (since using Freesat fully doesn’t allow for a motor), also a 2″ mount.  This is a factor because the dish is already slightly skewed, but difficult to judge accurately by how much.  

    I have been meaning to re-mount and fix the dish directly on the pole, but as I only have a simple signal meter, major adjustments are very time consuming up-and-down, in-and-out of the lounge.  Since re-mounting as fixed requires everything to be radically re-adjusted, the ‘while working…’ principle has tended to win out.  I’ve also had lengthy problems with my foot and so have been unable to climb the ladder (admittedly short) recently.  

    Until I started using Freesat fully, I could use the motor to make re-adjustments, but it’s entirely out the loop now.  

    Initially I did think the wind might have knocked things out, but since I mostly have 100% signals, I thought perhaps was the skew.  I did try adjusting this a little last night, after the channel updates, but couldn’t improve on the signal for channel 999 – although I could make it worse.  On reflection, I may have been going the wrong way.  Since the dish is already a little skewed in the correct direction, I should have perhaps sent it the other way, but my foot was hurting so I gave up before I messed things up.  

    I should straighten the dish up, so the skew on the LNB can be more accurately judged, but that would throw everything out, so I’m reluctant to do that until I’m able to sort everything out properly with a fully-secure mount directly to the pole.

    Had I known what I know now, I would have done things differently, gone for a circular dish which took a 2″ mount, not attempted to use the motor with Freesat – but hey, I’ve learnt a lot in the process! Mostly, it works.

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  55. Keith Says:

    I just checked Movies and Men.  The results were interesting, if not puzzling.  I used the diagnostics menu option.   

    Tuner2 showing 90% strength, 50%. Quality constantly.

    Tuner 1 mostly 0%/0% with intermittent 90% strength, 20% quality, literally only for a second or two.

    After left for several minutes, T1 settled into 90%/20-30%,  T2 90%/50-60%.

    I was just going to remark that T1 had settled to 90/30, T2 90/50. When it suddenly shot up and settled at 100/100 for T1, 90/50 for T2!  It stayed that way, constantly for several minutes before I exited diagnostics and the info button showed approximately 90/30.  Back to diagnostics, it had now settled at 90/30 T1, 90/60 T2.

    Throughout, other channels were, when able to look, 100/100.

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  56. Mike Bannister Says:

    I see test says BBC HD 108 and BBC One HD 109 will be the channel numbers along with Sky and Freeview numbers given.

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  57. Keith Says:

    Mike,

    That’s interesting, I thought I’d heard previously that BBC One HD would replace BBC HD on 108, with BBC HD moving to 109?

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  58. Neil Says:

    BBC1HD is to occupy LCN (Logical Channel No.) 108 and BBC HD LCN 109.

    Keith: Those results look interesting, are you sure there’s no sway on the dish in the wind? It seems the performance of one port on the LNB is better than another.

    I don’t want to go off-topic too much on this thread as it’s strictly about BBC1HD but in short, I’d recommend you double check the skew as this is quite important. I panned an 80cm dish last week and with the skew tilt out it virtually phase cancelled all the incoming signal. Like you say, if the dish isn’t purely horizontal and your trying to skew the LNB this will in itself also cause issues as can different LNB’s which point at different parts of the dish.

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  59. Mike Bannister Says:

    5002 – Channel 6941

    Red background with large BBC ONE HD in middle Test card says

    BBC One HD will be launching here with The One Show on 3 Nov

    BBC HD can now be found on Freesat 109, Freeview 54, Sky 169 and Virgin Media 187.

    I wonder when this test page will appear live as it were on Freesat 108 as it must change soon?

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  60. admin Says:

    It is likely that BBC HD will move to channel spot 109 at the same time as the official BBC One HD channel is launched on 108. There is little point doing it prior.

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  61. satom Says:

    yep but they could periodically insert a similar card (okay its a loop actually) during the preview time on 108 (BBC HD will be on 109 …) as of now to prepare viwers for the move in advance. (I learned there will be some problems with every day/week scheduled recordings?)

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  62. ian Says:

    it is a tad brainless if they dont make the changes before the launch….. atleast 48 hours before, so people can get used to the change, unless you use the net and come on places like here, or other sites, you will not have a clue about the channel number change, so if they leave it untill the actual launch day, its a tad brainless IMO… but then again, with the BBC, you never know!!

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  63. Keith Says:

    Although I don’t think anyone answered my original query explicitly, I gather everyone else was getting the channel updates as they occurred and it seems clear the problems were/are with my set-up. I know I need to sort it out now and what I need to do.  

    Thank you to everyone for their polite forbearance.

    Neil: for completeness, it’s a quad LNB, a Fortec Star FSKU4VN, I think.  I’m using the two inner feeds on the assumption (guess) that these might be closest in performance.  I cannot be absolutely sure what is happening to the dish at any given moment because it is impossible to see from within the house.  The pole is rock-solid with heavy-duty standoff v-mounts.  I think the ‘skewed’ skew is the main issue I have.  As soon as I can construct a proper mount, I need to bite the bullet, take it all apart and put it back together properly without the motor.   

    Heading as swiftly as possible back on topic…

    I’m really looking forward to the launch of BBC1HD, and personally I’m glad they’ve kept the original HD channel.  With only two HD channels to play with, I think the BBC have chosen the best option.

    However, I am undecided whether the BBC are really following platform independence when only launching HD channels on Freesat that are also on Freeview.  I adopted Freesat purely so I could get HD.  At that time there seemed no possibility of providing HD on Freeview.  Freeview HD won’t be available from the Rowridge transmitter until 2012 and even once it is, none of my existing kit will work with HD, I believe.  I’m not a subscriber, so can’t be certain, but it certainly was the case that Sky provided substantially more interactive sport coverage, than Freeview, even before the removal of channel 302, and had the News Multi-screen, which was removed from Freeview but hasn’t ‘yet’ made it to Freesat despite at least some of the feeds to support it being there.       

    I noticed in non-Freesat mode that as well as the new 6941, there appears to be a duplicate BBC HD channel.  I forget the number, but it seems there may be a ‘spare’ HD channel available.  Curious.   

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  64. satom Says:

    @Keith

    6945 is just a “hyperlink” to BBC HD UK – around for ages …

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  65. Keith Says:

    @satom -ah! Thanks, did wonder. Pity. Out of curiosity, any idea what purpose these ‘hyperlinks’ serve? Is that why there are, from memory, a number of entries for Channel 4?

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  66. Neil Says:

    Keith, try swapping your Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 feeds around as it appears the LNB port connected to Tuner 2 is performing better than Tuner 1’s.

    I agree with your point about the BBC claiming platform neutrality when they don’t yet give us the News Multiscreens, also Satellite users get the Sports Multiscreens which are lacking completely on Freeview!

    I’ve been keeping an eye on Linowsat, looks like the average nullpackets on the BBC HD Txp is hanging around the 10-13MB/s mark with each service averaging around 7MB/s (BBC1HD’s caption will keep their peak bandwidth closer to average at present).

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  67. Keith Says:

    Neil: I wonder which feed is used for the channel updates and programme guide? I had a suspicion, not sure if I remember why, that T2 might be used. Maybe because the programme guide appeared to update faster if a recording was taking place. I’m not even sure if that is true, but at one time it appeared that way.

    My other thought about platform neutrality is that it only appeared to become an objective once Freeview HD came into being. I suppose it is worthy aim, but since I suspect it will beva long time before the majority of the population have HD sets and receivers, I don’t see how it would go against neutrality to offer HD versions of all BBC channels on Freesat as soon as they are able. It not as though they are adding actual new channels (different content) that can’t be accessed by Freeview, just better quality for those that have the equipment.

    Along the same lines, how do 720 HD Ready sets fit with this policy of platform neutrality? If the majority of people, as I suspect, have only 720p (possibly only 720i) sets anyway, where is the harm in broadcasting HD channels in 1920x1080i on Freesat and 1440x1080i to Freeview if that is all it can support?

    Incidentally, in my recent brief rummage around non-freeview mode yesterday, I glanced at the STV HD channel, which I understand is broadcasting at 1920x1080i. Purely subjective, but I was struck instantly that it appeared a much more detailed and better quality picture.

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  68. Richard Crichton Says:

    Many of the BBC’s Sony HD cameras only support up to 1440×1080 so not much would be gained by broadcasting at 1920×1080 especially as they show so few imported shows or movies.

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  69. admin Says:

    Regarding DOGS, we have been reliably informed this morning that the DOG is only temporary (on BBC One HD test) and by next Wednesday (3rd Nov) it will be smaller and less prominent. It is unclear however whether it will disappear completely on certain programmes.

    This should at least be goods news for those DOG hates (logo, not pet!)

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  70. Neil Says:

    Keith: I agree with your comments about platform neutrality. Why not launch these services on Freesat first and Freeview later, after all the sports and news multiscreens certainly aren’t available on all platforms so rather contradictory for Danielle Nagler to mention about only launching HD services if they are available on all platforms. Richard’s comments are interesting, I didn’t know the internal BBC production teams used 1440×1080 camera hardware. There’s loads who moan the beeb don’t resolute to 1920 horizontal pixels but to me 1440 is fine, I doubt most people would ever notice on general broadcast material anyway.

    STV HD does look good, I’m wondering what processing is being applied to ‘manipulate’ the images more Encoder-friendly prior to transmission. There’s a few who say ITV1 Granada (also 1920x1080i) actually doesn’t even look as good as STV HD during ITV networked programmes. After doing an A/B comparison at home I tend to agree and I suspect there’s something STV are doing to improve it!

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  71. bigal Says:

    @ 69 admin

    That is good to hear, It is way to large at the Mo. The other day I noticed a considerable ‘Backlash’ from the public about the current One HD Dog on a BBC blog site.

    Maybe the BBC have listened to the people who actually pay them and had a change of heart.

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  72. satom Says:

    personally I don’t think the largest part of the public dn’t care a tiniest bit for DOGs or HD upscaling or Dolby XXXX.xxx CXS – they just care for their entertainment. If its viewable and good to listen to thats enough. Seen the DOG is almost seethrough I can’t see why to bother abot it. Its just – as always – a very small (relative) group of very outspoken and agille tekki guys in that forums. I dare to guess a broader check for peoples views would result in most of them are totally okay with the DOGs.

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  73. mediaman Says:

    STV benefits from newer technology. They consulted and worked with many of the leaders in HD to create a superior HD experience where as ITV rushed the job. STV Player is also far superior to ITV Player in picture quality thanks to Brightcove and their Flash technology which STV tested and still use. Whatever technology or encoders STV uses to get it’s picture quality so sharp it has many people at ITV mad as they can’t figure it out either. Whatever it is STV are not telling.

    My only gripe with STV is when will be STV HD be available on Freesat.

      Quote

  74. satom Says:

    yep must admit I generelly watch ITV 1 Network programming on STV HD – far better picture quality. And sometimes STV even has better programs (in cases they don’t share the ITV1 schedule)

      Quote

  75. Keith Says:

    Oops!  I seem to have started something.

    @68, Richard.  A good point.  I didn’t know that.  Interesting.    

    @73, mediaman.  Very interesting.  I would agree it would be great to have STV on Freesat.  However, if everyone generally agrees that the STV pictures are noticeably better, perhaps it will never appear on Freesat since BBC and ITV (who fund it) might feel it would make comparisons too easy, and might not like public reaction.  It might make the BBC’s assertions about BBC HD picture quality a little uncomfortable.  

    Sadly, I only got Freesat (and a 1080p TV to gob with it) a couple of months prior to the (generally accepted) picture quality downgrade of BBC HD.  Things have improved, but results can be variable.  Although, HD is apparently a greater challenge to both camera operators and directors.  Sometimes the ‘style’ of the programme is indistinguishable from poorer picture quality. 

    @72, satom.  In general I’d agree with most of that.  However, with DOGs, I think it depends upon the programme.  With certain material it can be intrusive and can detract from to atmosphere – especially with the more prominent ones.  The current BBC HD DOG is probably the least obtrusive of the main channels.

    Surround sound can add enormously to the experience/enjoyment of certain programmes, especially live events, action films, sci-fi series etc.  My only problem with this that BBC HD has drastically variable sound levels between programmes, announcements, trailers etc.  It alternates from a whisper to shaking the tiles of the roof within moments!  So I reserve it for specific programmes which most benefit from it.  They improved it a couple months ago, only to make it worse again recently.  I imagine it’s quite a challenge for them juggling all the platforms and home equipment.

    @all.  But generally I feel that despite any limitation/shortcomings, it’s still great news to have BBC1 HD launching.  At a minimum, at the very least it will (hopefully) greatly reduce the number of conflicts, especially during major events.

    I read somewhere of the challenges the BBC had with cameras and equipment when they first switched to colour.  I guess much of what we are seeing reflects similar challenges upgrading cameras, studios, sound equipment (reading a technical blog, doing Dolby 5.1 especially at live events) presents a huge challenge.  Something I know I haven’t always been quick to appreciate.  I think we’re all so used to everything working flawlessly,that it is hard to remember that everyone is still effectively learning on the job with HD.  I’m old enough to remember the days with the old temporary fault cards used to be displayed on a regular basis..  I’m not having a go at anyone, just recognising that the success of the BBC has raised our expectations so high that the tiniest issue really stands out.

    Hopefully, success of BBC HD and BBC1 HD will encourage further progress and greater take-up of Freesat.  The higher the proportion of Freesat viewers the more likely we are to get ITV2, 3, 4, Channel 4 and Five in HD.  Also Fiver, FiveUSA, Dave on the platform.  Nothing against Freeview, it would jut be good if Freesat was allowed to live up to its potential.                  

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  76. satom Says:

    @Keith
    each and every channel WITH content will make freesat more attractive to potential viewers and every channel will act as a multpliers as they publish their resp freesat ID.

    And since it is a common market practice to start affirmative actions – in the print publishing world known as interceptors – I guess freesat has become a threat to sky and cie so they started RD (edit – admin) with a similar concept (200 free to air channels) to stop it (and when freesat has been ruined, real will suddenly and unexpected run into difficulties and vanish as well …)

    Whilst I think fiver and five usa will be possible additions, I am afraid the likes of dave will not since they and theit parent companies are subscription oriented/based/structured.

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  77. Keith Says:

    @satom: You make a valid point about Dave, of course. However, it is available FTA on Freeview, so I find it odd they wouldn’t want the additional advertising revenue from Freesat. I suspect a lot of the absence of various channels is more down to Sky using contracts which keep them off Freesat. I guess Sky don’t see Freeview as such a threat.

    I’ve not heard of RD (edit – admin). Is this what was previously called Freesat from Sky (or similar) which needed a viewing card? Prior to that it didn’t have a name, but again required a viewing card to decrypt encrypted FTA channels. I agree that is likely to be their objective, but I’m not so sure they pose such threat to Freesat for anyone buying satellite kitbfrom new. I’ve never been a subscriber, but many that have, have suggested that Sky has a tendency to pull the rug out from people and change things on a whim. Therefore, I think Freesat should be attractive to them as well.

    Although improving a little recently, it is shame that Freesat isn’t better and more widely promoted. The current promotion is, well, a bit rubbish, but better than nothing. The loss of ITV2, 3 and 4 HD to subscription is a great pity. I know ITV is strapped for money, but still a lost opportunity. It’s also a shame that Freesat is hardly ever mentioned on either BBC or ITV, when Sky is.

    I’m sure others will see things differently, I don’t understand the BBC can’t be allowed, even encouraged to promote Freesat. Our licence fee is involved. You can also get it on Sky but it’s avaiable free on Freesat and Freeview. I don’t see it as a competition issue. I have nothing against Sky; if people want to (effectively) pay for something available for free, that’s up to them. But it is annoying that they are allowed indulge in spoiling tactics against Freesat.

    Just noticed Gordon Bucannon filming with a 720p camera on Autumnwatch. I’ve noticed the same in the past on other wildlife programmes. I have heard said that 720p handles movement better than 1080i.

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  78. satom Says:

    @Keith

    yes promotion is really lame .. the
    should at least stop to call everything satellite “on sky” start calling on satellite or at least name the sat like on astra

    next step would be to nagotiate transponders for freesat customers directly with ses – not renting and leasing them but be an agent to loose the absolute dependency from mr. murdoch (if that bundeling channel owners to rent a tp would get them a discount in tp lease would further help to make freesat more atractive for independent channels)

    all in all freesat should be become more independent from Sky otherwise they will always be slowed down or hampered

    as for rd – Its just what I wondered, reading their press bulletin about them fering 200 fta channels – and no its not freesat from sky by name, its set up by the people behind showcase and information tv – both carried by sky

      Quote

  79. admin Says:

    RD is owed by David Henry, who is/was involved in RaptureTV who lost a big court battle against Sky many years ago and has since made it his lifes work to try and compete with Sky (for revenge?) but isn’t really getting anywhere.

    As a Freesat platform, we cannot encourage discussions about RD, so can we steer clear of that subject.

    @Keith

    Freeview and Freesat are completely different; Freeview have no direct competition in the terrestrial market and as primarily a ‘free’ platform they can get channels such as Dave who see it as extra advertising revenue from a greater potential audience.

    The same cannot be said for Freesat, as Dave cannot launch the channel on Freesat without being FTA, meaning that all those on Sky could access it too, without paying for it as part of the Variety pack. Dave, and others get such large sweetners from Sky to be part of a subscription pack, that it far outweighs any potential upside of advertising revenue.

    However, all is not lost, at some stage the balance between sub and advertising revenue will change and they may go FTA. The question is how many potential Freesat sales will there need to have been for that to be viable. It could be 5mil, 10mil…more!!!

      Quote

  80. Keith Says:

    It’s a shame the BBC couldn’t launch a Dave/UKTV-like archive channel exclusively on Freesat. I guess they make money from re-selling to UKTV who get money from advertising and subscription. However, could this sort of channel be run by BBC worldwide supported by advertising? BBC America, for example, are funded by advertising because the BBC aren’t allowed to use the licence fee for channels that aren’t available to licence payers. It could be branded as ‘Fred’ or whatever to avoid confusion. Possibly a joint-venture with Channel4. Perhaps a Freesat venture funded, for those channels, by BBC WW would be better. I know Freesat are supposed to only be a platform and not involved with content, but it would perhaps make it a closer model to Channel4 or Sky.

    Don’t get me wrong, I would never want the (UK) BBC proper to lose the licence fee or to carry advertising, but it sometimes seems others benefit more from their back-catalogue than they do.

    I also wonder if Sky would have been quite as successful if they didn’t carry the BBC Channels. I think I heard that the BBC have to pay a listing fee to Sky they carry the BBC channels. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong. I would have thought that Sky should have to pay the BBC for the privilege. I’m sure things looked very different in the earlier days of satellite broadcasting.

      Quote

  81. satom Says:

    yes that would be a great idea to launch a freesat only channel like Fred with BBC Archive material – there are fe lot and lots of classic british sitcoms, comedies and other series that founded the reputation of the BBC (also worldwide) but haven’t been shown for a long time. Even if parts o that stock is only in b&w. I agree this would be a great addition and “barker” channel for freesat with low costs but content . Like the good ole UK Gold before it mutated beyond recognition.

    It could even carry classic childrens programming and would certainly bring publicity, viewers and advertisers on board of freesat. Even if it is not in HD and carries a DOG (sorry could not resist).

    Just how to set it up would be the problem – would the bbc be allowed to run such a channel?

      Quote

  82. Keith Says:

    @satom: Probably not, at least under existing rules. Nevertheless, they do handle merchandising, even in the UK. They run the BBC Shop (bbcshop.com), so I didn’t think what I’m suggesting would be huge stretch from selling videos to running a ‘BBC Gold’ channel exclusive to Freesat. It could be on Freeview as well, but then it might be cause licensing issues with Dave. A BBC Gold HD would stealna march on everyone else. Re-runs of recent Top Gear, Doctor Who, Sherlock, QI, Holby City – although maybe it will already exist after 3rd November out of peak hours and be called the BBC HD channel. ;-)

    Interestingly, there are frequent references to Dave made during BBC programmes, Top Gear, QI, Have I Got News for You, Mock the Week – it would heighten recognition to have mentions of BBC Gold/Freesat instead.

    The BBC has enough ‘classic’ material to fill several channels. It may be more difficult with more recent shows since they may have been made with independent production companies with specific deals forever-runs on Dave, perhaps – guessing. I’m sure there would be ways around it.

      Quote

  83. satom Says:

    just six days to go and still on the wrong IDs – freesat and tp wise – and not one info card or band on HD UK … with tp changes very frequently fe on hotbird 13e channels inform viewers about a month in advance with info belts bottom or top screen … seems the BBC has no intetntion to inform their freesat viewers about the change. Okay virgin or sky would not like the mentioning of freesat on screen but after all its a bbc channel …

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  84. Neil Says:

    Keith: Yep Dave would be good on Freesat and if it were BBC Worldwide’s decision this may be different but UKTV is a joint 50/50 BBC Worldwide/Virgin Media venture so effectively a separate entity.

    There could be some interesting developments in the future though as Virgin Media want out of the deal and under the terms of the joint UKTV deal BBC Worldwide have first refusal to purchase the remaining 50% they currently do not own. If this comes to fruition together with what is expected to be economic improvements then the prospects of Dave, Yesterday etc joining Freesat will be increased somewhat but anything could happen. I personally don’t miss the channel as it only seems to ever show Ray Mears + Top Gear!!

    Satom: I feel the BBC have improved on their awareness of the platform as it does get more of a mention now on both their websites and also during various programmes from time to time.

      Quote

  85. satom Says:

    just seen they test a new card on one HD test channel – seems additional to the EPG info to be shown during the reg news.

    BBC one HD cannot yet show programmes from every part of the UK. The programme for your area is now on Channel 1001/1

    Programming will resume here on BBC One HD in:

    followed by a counter counting down the minutes

    Now thats viewer service. And what about the “yet”???
    WIll the rotate tje regions shown on BBC one HD or are they planning regional versions of one HD?

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  86. bigal Says:

    Off topic I know, But I Just turned my Humax Freesat box on in Freesat mode.

    It asked if I wanted to add/update channels, thinking that the BBC had switched 108 & added 109 for the BBC One HD launch I pressed OK.

    After the scan it said channels added = 0, channels moved = 0, channels removed = 0

    Why perform an Update when there is no Update?. This is not the first time this has happened.

      Quote

  87. satom Says:

    wild guess – since you did not mention “channels changed” what is the third option updates here use to show – some channel has changed PID, FEC or name or something in the background ie on the real satellite channel

      Quote

  88. bigal Says:

    satom.

    Could be wrong but I think on the Humax channels moved means channels changed, Anyway, all I know is after the auto update nothing appeared to have changed.

    I do take your point that ‘Things’ may have changed in the background so to speak.

      Quote

  89. Keith Says:

    @bigal: I get this ‘every’ time I switch on my Humax (HDR) box. Until, as a few days ago, it actually updates channels, then it doesn’t even search for updates for about a week. I always figured it did this when it couldn’t get a signal – due to my odd set up. However, perhaps satom has a point.

      Quote

  90. bigal Says:

    @ 89 Keith

    You get this ‘every’ time you switch on your Humax (HDR) box.

    That is VERY odd. The way it works as I understand it is this….. When Freesat actually update the Freesat channels then the Humax, and other Freesat STB’s will perform an update scan. In other words No Update = No Scan, Hence ‘Weeks’ between updates. I would think it has nothing to do with Signal as I have a 80cm dish (OK, a bit over sized for the UK) But it does not make any difference to me if it is pouring down I still get 100% S/100%Q Therefore, I suspect that is not the issue with your set up.

    I should also point out that I am an ‘End User’, The techie stuff does not really interest me, If a Box says it wants to add new stuff I expect new stuff to be added, Fair comment??.

    I think BBC should be doing something NOW to alert people to the imminent changes to add One HD or are they just going to Dump this on us on Nov 3rd?.

      Quote

  91. Keith Says:

    @bigal: My ‘theory’ behind what I was experiencing went along the following lines:

    The Freesat ‘channel’ catalogue is on a different satellite from the majority of the Freesat channels.  Although, like you, I get consistent 100% S&Q on all the main channels.  However, as discussed in earlier entries, channels on the same transponder as the channel list show much a much weaker S&Q – currently frequently 0%.  Check the signal on Men & Movies (143) and Freesat info (999) and see if you have the same issue.

    I assumed that a while after a successful update, if it was unable to get a significant signal, on power-up it would ask if it should check anyway.  Notice the message says, new channels ‘may’ have been added.  On finding no changes it would state zero additions, changes or deletions.

    Note the message show the transponder it is checking at the top currently as 11427 H 27500 2/3.  At some point in the past I believe it used to be 11426. 

    Usually, it would take a few seconds to perform this check.  Most recently, it has been returning immediately.  This seems to have coincided with timed recording problems and 0% S&Q.

    However, that is/was my theory, but satom’s suggestion has some merit.  I have 60cm dish, incidentally, and am also unaffected by rain, however, maybe those with smaller dishes have less of a problem with this. 

    They presumably had a good reason for putting this on a satellite different from the majority of the Freesat channels, but personally I think it would be better/simpler if it was held on the same satellite.  There is a software update for the Humax due soon, maybe this will improve matters.  One feature is that it will update the guide whilst in standby mode.           

      Quote

  92. Keith Says:

    Er, I what I meant was that a smaller dish might possibly handle satellites in slightly different positions better since the gain on larger dishes might narrow the focus, so to speak (loosely).

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  93. Keith Says:

    Just heard first mention of BBC1 HD… immediately after this evening’s QI on BBC HD, saying that it would be back next week on the newly launched BBC1 HD (or something to that effect). :-)

      Quote

  94. admin Says:

    @Keith

    They have beeb mentioning it for a couple of days now. It was mentioned after a programme on Wednesday night; think it might have been the Apprentice, saying on next week on BBC One HD.

      Quote

  95. Keith Says:

    @admin: that’s good. I meant to say it was the first mention I had heard.

    I was beginning to fear that it might launch with hardly anyone knowing about it.

    Thinking about it, I suppose Wednesday would have been the first time they could start saying that.

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  96. Neil Says:

    Good to hear the beeb are starting to plug it. I was expecting they might have done the BBC1HD/BBC HD update today but guess now it will be Monday possibly. I also can’t imagine they will do it on Wednesday without a couple of days worth of the current caption radiating informing of channel changes.

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  97. satom Says:

    @Neil

    they could still do it – HD UK close down is ~ 2:35am …

    what do you think will happen to the linked ID after the switch ? HD or one HD?

      Quote

  98. Neil Says:

    The info on Freesat’s Information Channel would suggest it’s actually happening at 1900 on Wed although I’d guess they would do it during the Preview hours earlier in the day.

      Quote

  99. bigal Says:

    @ 91 Keith

    I have checked the signal on Men & Movies (143) and Freesat info (999) and they both show S = 100 % and Q = 40 %

    Could it be that your dish is not aligned correctly?.

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  100. satom Says:

    so they did not switch yet and no info about it on HD UK …

    just seen HD UK just shows motor sport with a very transparent and small DOG in the upper right hand corner of the screen – did they do it before or are they trying to “listen to the dog haters”? (Since I don’t stir at DOGs I don’t know if it was right hand corner before)

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  101. Keith Says:

    @99 bigal: Very possibly. Highly likely, in fact, as my earlier wanderings periously close to off topic (@55) may evidence. :-)

    It is something I intend to either sort out or put firmly out of question as soon as I am able. I just thought you might like to know you are not alone with this -although the reasons may be different.

    It is regrettible ITV2, 3, 4 HD have gone subscription. It would certainly have helped the attraction of Freesat if they had come here. It would be great if STV HD would come to Freesat. I wonder if it is worth e-mailing them with the suggestion? There is a link on stv.tv to yourview@stv.tv, which seems the most appropriate option. Maybe if enough people request it, they might consider it if they haven’t already. Relevence to BBC1 HD? Tenuous, but the more HD channels the more attractive Freesat may become, thus more BBC channels may appear in HD sooner, perhaps. Also, it is generally regarded as having better picture quality which might persuade the BBC and ITV1 to make efforts to match it.

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  102. Kevin Ver1 Says:

    I did the manual tune for BBC 1 HD earlier today. At the time they were just showing the BBC 1 idents with a notice about first program at 7pm Wednesday. It would be nice to see some previews.

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  103. satom Says:

    yep, the y joined BBC1 all week inbetween preview loops and cards .. I had some hope for a bit of upscaled Merlin too …

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  104. ian Says:

    cannot comfirm this, but noise from a few reliable sources have said that Channel4 have bought a vacant transponder space from the BBC for Channel4HD to launch on Freesat, again, i cannot confirm this!!

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  105. Keith Says:

    @104, Ian: That would be wonderful if it pans out.

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  106. Keith Says:

    @103, Satom: It’s a great pity Merlin, at the very least the current series, wasn’t shot in HD. I know there has been speculation regarding the costs and time required to create the special effects in HD. I for one would have loved to see the dragon in HD.

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  107. Al Catraz Says:

    MotoGP in HD starts in half an hour – can’t wait!

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  108. Kevin Ver1 Says:

    #106 Keith

    I am surprised that Merlin has not been produced in HD especially as Dr Who, The Sarah Jane Adventure’s and Torchwood are all currently in HD now and have special effects galore. I really enjoyed last nights episode of Merlin so HD is not the most important factor.

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  109. Neil Says:

    @104 – Who are your sources (if you can reveal, understand if not)? Not Digital Spy by any chance? You do have to take what is put on their with a pinch of salt!

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  110. admin Says:

    The info on C4 buying a slot isn’t quite right, but might be soon ;)

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  111. satom Says:

    apart from not beeing the BBC but Sky, not C4 HD but E4/more4 HD/4 music HD and not FTA but encrypted …

    just teasing …

    yes a lot on digital spy is either wishful thinking without regards to commercial structures, promo by installers, reseller who want to sell fe new HD equipment or straightforward misleading “info” by sky troupers. So yes be careful with those, use your brain and own knowledge

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  112. Avit_now Says:

    Stop teasing admin. Give us a bit more info :)

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  113. satom Says:

    he wrote “might” – so either he is not allowed or the deals are not done yet so patience is the best way forward for now I think – lets be happy when it really is news

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  114. ian Says:

    not DS no, ive more sense than that lol!
    but no, i car’nt reveal the source, if/when i can, il plaster it across here in big capitals

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  115. Avit_now Says:

    Patience is virtue that evidently most posters (and lurkers) don’t have on here or DS.

    But I am thankful for both Ian and the other Ian’s (admin) input.

    We all know it will happen eventially and I work on the presumption that c4 (and all the other psbs) will want more narrow beam transponders once the new astra sat is up next year. The BBC won’t launch any new services unless freeview can support them, so in the short term it looks like they have unused bandwidth which c4 could do with in the short term to launch their HD service.

    As I understand it free view think after dso 2012 there may be room for another HD service and there is always the potential of another HD mux being offered if it makes sense commercially, so until then I can’t see the the extra sat bandwidth being used.

    But until it’s official all we can do is presume….

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  116. Neil Says:

    114 – No worries, just wanted to check. All potentially good news, time will tell.

      Quote

  117. ian Says:

    i know that 95% of the comments and alike on digital spy is concoton and speculation, and if i wanted that, il put sky news on!

    yes 115, i find that not to be the case with the BBC and Freeview, allot of what is avalible on DSAT, like sport multiscreen and new multiscreen is not avalible on Freeview, the latter was taken off for ‘HD’ but we all know the space is now being used for Sky Sports so….. its a big reason why i invested in a Humax FoxSat HD box, i was sick of seeing ‘not on freeview’…. but then again, new multiscreen is not on Freesat, so the cross platform neutrality is a bit all-to-cock with the BBC!
    still………… roll on BBC One HD and its splendid DOG right!! :-)

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  118. Keith Says:

    I received the following reply from STV regarding my enquiry about STV HD:

    We do not yet have a date for when STV HD will launch on the satellite
    platform. We absolutely want to have STV HD on both Sky and Freesat and
    are currently working with Sky, Freesat and ITV Network with a view to
    making STV HD available via satellite as soon as possible.

    Sounds promising. :-)

      Quote

  119. satom Says:

    @ 118 Keith:

    but you are well aware you can get STV HD in gorgeous HD in non freesat mode for some time now?

      Quote

  120. Jock Says:

    #119 satom

    Yeah – but still without subtitles. For those of us who are aurally challenged, a pretty picture is not enough. SD with subtitles still wins. The same is true of ITV-HD. If the Beeb can do it, why not ITV/STV?

      Quote

  121. satom Says:

    yes … I think its because its just a test transmission until they get their issues with ITV sorted ,,,

      Quote

  122. bigal Says:

    Just reading the Freesat info page on channel 999.

    It says that to prompt the changes after 7pm put your box into standby for one minute and turn it back on.

    So it looks as though the change will be made right at the last minute.

    Don’t know about anyone else but I would have thought it would be better to switch say morning/afternoon on the 3rd to put BBC HD on 109 and One HD on 108 and show the BBC One HD slide until the launch.

      Quote

  123. ian Says:

    i was expecting an update message this morning saying it had been added, but i feel they (BBC) will leave it untill wednesday! which is mindless IMO!

      Quote

  124. admin Says:

    @bigal

    The plan is to launch it just before midday on Wednesday with a test screen and banner stating that BBC HD is now on channel 109. Not sure why the info channel is suggesting otherwise, but there are always some boxes that need rebooting before the changes take affect, so many it is directed at them.

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  125. satom Says:

    thinking about it its not easy for freesat since the EPG is the heart of the matter and if the switched to a one testcatd too early people would complain their scheduled recordings were alll wrong. So they have to keep it to almost the last minute. I wonder if they will switch real tp channels at all since what is going on in the backgound it is not relevant for freesat viewers. I would have expected them to put HD UK on both IDs for some time so people could get used to the new ID of the HD channel and program that in advance.

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  126. bigal Says:

    @ admin Many thanks for the info.

    @ satom I agree it is not easy for freesat. This must be a major nightmare for them.

    Round of applause everyone for all at the BBC, Freesat and the Admin of this site for all the work they put in on our behalf. In the words of an old TV host…..
    “I mean that most sincerely, folks”

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  127. Keith Says:

    @119, satom: Thanks for pointing that out, but yes I did know.

    There four reasons I’m keen for it to appear on Freesat proper:

    It would be included in the programmes guide, not just Now and Next.

    I have a Humax/Foxsat HDR. Whilst in non-freesat mode, scheduled recordings won’t record (I think).

    Following from that point, I would be able to schedule recordings once the channel appears in the programme guide.

    It would be easier to switch between channels.

    Actually, I rarely come out of Freesat mode any longer. Another benefit is that the channel would become more visible than others, rather than just a four-digit number, and more people might notice the better picture quality. Above all else, Freesat would be able to claim four HD channels, rather than just three.

      Quote

  128. Keith Says:

    More visible to others… I meant.

      Quote

  129. bigal Says:

    @ 127 Keith

    Err, That would be three HD channels. BBC One HD, BBC HD & ITV 1 HD.

    The other HD channel is in Non Freesat mode.

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  130. satom Says:

    @ bigal

    he referred to IF the now testing STV HD was part of freesat line up (not really 4 HD channels since ITV1 and STV join for a lot of programming but if you would overlook that there would be 4)

      Quote

  131. Keith Says:

    @129, bigal: Agreed, it does rather depend upon ones definition of a channel. It would more correctly be termed a regional variant. Yet, on casual examination, it does seem to have a greater variation than the English regions before they were amalgamated into ITV1 – now there’s hardly any regional variation at all and no decernable ‘local’ news, at least with Meridian. STV seem to show feature films overnight, instead of ITV1’s teleshopping/quizzes etc.

    Given also that it is generally regarded as having better picture quality, personally, I would be more likely to regard it as my preferred ITV1 HD channel than channel 119.

    I guess I was taking a loose definition, regarding it as a separate channel since it would be listed separately in the programme guide and I would have the option of scheduling recordings from it.

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  132. Jock Says:

    STV is more than a regional variant! Not so long ago we had Grampian serving the north of Scotland, STV serving the central belt (including Edinburgh and Glasgow) and Border TV looking after, well, the Borders. They all featured a lot of their own programming (who remembers Thingummyjig?),

    The pressure which followed financial weakness forced a lot of mergers and we are now left with the present situation. STV still makes some of its own programmes, but a lot of the schedule is indistinguishable from the English regions. We would like to think of this as a temporary measure until the financial situation improves so that we can return to making and watching our own programmes.

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  133. roger Says:

    Jock-STV are a joke right now,they are denying viewers the likes of Downton Abbey(not my cup of tea) and in the past stopped showing The Bill etc. They seem more committed to showing second rate Australian crime series’ and repeats of billy connolly in the arctic.STV made a rod for their own back by opting out of the ITV network when it suited them,they dont even cover Live scottish football anymore. Its not a temporary measure at all,expect more repeats of Taggart, et al.

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  134. satom Says:

    @roger

    they don’t only break away from downtown alley which is even less my cup of tea than that weired australian “crime series” but at least they try to offer a decent regional program to cater their viewers with an different schedule. Some of that is a lot better than the ITV offerings some are worth – as always … but i applaude them for beeing regional and going their own way

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  135. Keith Says:

    @roger: ITV1 London is always available on 977 for those STV viewers for whom Downton Abbey ‘is’ their cup of tea -not mine either.

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  136. Keith Says:

    …actually ITV HD on 119, since that is also ITV1 London.

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  137. Jock Says:

    133 – roger

    Thanks for that. I would much rather watch a repeat of Taggart than Scottish (or any other) football. As Keith points out, Freesat boxes give us access to English ITV – and Scottish ex-pats can watch our programmes.

    Many of the posts on JoinFreesat have drawn attention to the poor quality of ITV programming in general – STV is just different. However, with the flexibility that a decent Freesat box gives us, what are we moaning about?

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  138. bigal Says:

    Some people on here may find this interesting.

    Andy Quested has a page regarding BBC One HD tests at…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/11/bbc_one_hd_test_transmissions.html

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  139. roger Says:

    Re Jock,Keith etc-Absolutely agree guys,ITV1 is far from being the best,Auntie BBC is easily way ahead,all i was saying was that STV are not what they once were,they have lost the plot. Satom,have you watched “The Hour” screened between 5-6pm? Jesus,its dire,this is supposedly STV’s answer to a Paul O’Grady/Alan TiTmarsh show. The other week they even showed the previous 2 days weather instead of that day’s forecast. And as for “going their own way”- the only way is down.

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  140. satom Says:

    @ roger

    give them a chance … personally I would rather look the weather of the last two days again or 10 episodes of Beeing victor than 10 miunutes of celebrity juice or the likes of that

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  141. satom Says:

    and yes The Hour is only the short title for The Nanas Niiting Club Entertainment Hour – they have to cater to the viewers at that time of day like the good ole radio kuxembourg had to do since they only haven 1 channel for all groups. But I do think they show a lot better movies at night than ITV does. And anyway: If they come to freesat its one more to choose from – and that can’t be that bad, can it?

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  142. roger Says:

    Satom-sorry mate but,being scotland’s only independent channel they are dying a slow death.Viewing figures are plummeting whereas if they had stayed fully within the ITV network,screening the major dramas etc their share of advertising revenue would have helped them produce better local programming.For some of their programmes(repeats) viewing figures have been under 100,000. In a nation of 5m plus this is not good.Cheers

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  143. Mediaman Says:

    STV in the last year have launched STV Player, apps, higher online profile, alternative programming most of which is working, higher number of viewers and profits new advertising and sponsors start next year. None of which could be done under ITV. Many media experts are saying that STV’s strategy and business plan are working unlike ITV,s which is spending huge amounts and getting further into debt. On the whole STV is in a better place now than it was with ITV. Even ITV’s boss said today that ITV only appeals to the lowest common denominator and they would like more variety in genres but can’t afford it.
    STV is in a lot better shape than ITV is right now and their shares are rising above average where as ITV are barely moving. Daybreak, the many problems surrounding Downton Abbey are adding to their already huge financial debt.

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  144. Mike Bannister Says:

    “BBC One HD will be available – from November 3rd – on Freesat channel 108, BBC HD will be available – from November 3rd – on Freesat channel 109….”

    So will it just appear, i’m out until 10:30 tonight and have programmes set to record on BBC HD will then just fail or will the channel channel appear before I leave for work at 13:30?????

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  145. bigal Says:

    My Humax box has just updated.

    BBC One HD now on Ch 108

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  146. bigal Says:

    Addition to my post No 145

    It tries to Auto access the Red Button service and shows a box saying Due to a technical problem, we are unable to carry out your request at this time.

    There is a Yellow button to go back. When I press it I just get stuck in a loop.

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  147. bigal Says:

    Problem I mentioned on post No 146 seems to have cleared now and the Red Button service is available.

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  148. Keith Says:

    @146-147,bigal: My Humax box started doing that at power-up occasionally a few months ago. Mostly, after it did an auto-tune, I think. I found pressing the ‘Exit’ button the most reliable method to sort this.

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  149. bigal Says:

    Keith 148

    It only happened on BBC One HD just after it came onto ch 108. No other channels were affected and it cleared itself shortly after.

    More of a tech fault at BBC/Freesat than my Humax I suspect.

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