Loading ...May 09 2011
Following the announcement we made back in April, NHK World has today launched their HD variant of hugely popular English language Japanese news channel.
NHK World HD is available through all Freesat HD receivers on channel 209; the same channel currently used for the SD version on Freesat SD receivers.
May 9th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
So, my question – is it possible to watch/record the SD version on an HD PVR?
MuzerQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Another HD addition to the platform, we’re now officially ahead of Freeview folks and also with HD at higher resolutions
Muzer: I suspect so but only in non-freesat mode. Given the limited bandwidth and 4:3 format of the SD version I’m not sure why anyone would want to record this over the HD version?
Has the EPG channel label been updated to “NHK World HD”?
NeilQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
@neil that is exactly the point….. a low bandwidth SD recording uses less memory on a PVR than a HD recording
AshQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
If they were running out of space on their PVR, naturally.
MuzerQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
(Damn, you can’t edit posts):
It’s not so much a problem with NHK, which I doubt many will want to record anyway, but if this behaviour is carried over to the CBS HD channels if/when they launch, that will be a problem for me – not least because it’s likely to disrupt my series link on the day it happens, but also because I will then not be able to view my HD recordings on other devices, assuming they have the encryption flag, and I’ll have no way of recording in SD.
MuzerQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
Excellent.
DanQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Coool, thank you NHK and Japan
ZubQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Fantastic! Another HD Channel
monkeymaniacQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
I agree – sorry if I came across as ungrateful, I just don’t think it’s a good idea to have the SD version inaccessible on HD receivers…
MuzerQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Just been watching it. Looks so good in HD
Gordon S ValentineQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Great news. I checked out the picture quality earlier and it looked fantastic.
IrishMJQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@2 Neil
The EPG says NHK World HD and there is a HD DOG in the top left hand corner.
Super 1088×1920 resolution blows BBC HD lite away.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
I think it is a good step that the HD channel takes the original EPG slot on a HD box.
But… the SD channel should still be available on the EPG – so a PVR can still offer the choice to record the SD version. Maybe the ideal is to be able to offer that choice while still only having one EPG slot if that is possible.
My foxsat is always so full – I often record SD in preference to HD.
Not relevant to me for this channel – but in terms of setting a precedent…
MartinQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
excellent news – keep ‘em coming freesat!
Al CatrazQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
@ 12, I’m in total agreement the BBC is now really poor mans HD, more like SD+ than HD. I can’t believe the BBC is testing ultra HD, lets just get HD right first!
Lee BQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Great news ! The HD quality is fantastic ! Thank you NHK ! Arigato !
YukseekQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Looking good!
Brian PQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Had chance to check it out now and it does indeed say NHK World HD.
I expect more channels will follow suit of this method for joining the platform HD-wise, will most likely be very cost effective too.
NeilQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
It’s getting better by the week . Still can’t believe the BBC and their so called HD channels are so poor. More like 720 than 1080.. Come on guys sort this out.. After Channel 4 & now NHK your’e channels are starting to look very average to say the least..
Anyway getting back to now, lets give NHK a pat on the back. Great job for jumping on board the freesat wagon. Let’s see what arrives next. Answers on a postcard !
TonyQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Just switched it over and am very impressed with quality, whats next!!!
AlanQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
I would have guessed the CBS HD channels.
MuzerQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
The sad fact is the BBC HD picture quality used to be on par with this prior to Aug 2009. How they can still argue there has been no deterioration in picture quality is beyond belief.
RussQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
THANK YOU NHK WORLD.
I asked you directly when you launched in SD for the HD variant and you have, belatedly answered my request. It was well worth the wait. Picture quality is outstanding. I cannot wait to see some of the HD documentaries in the PQ they deserve.
Now, to the really serious stuff……………………. Do we really need to be shown the way by a Japanese broadcaster how do it right???? Clearly, the answer is yes, we do.
Why, Oh Why have the BBC let us all down so badly where HD is concerned? Two channels great, but at barely SD+ in quality, why bother. BBC – accept you got it right when you started and then lost the plot for some reason and then got it totally wrong. Now you can accept the lead taken by NHK World and put it right again and put the BBC ahead again.
Regards
PaulQuote
May 9th, 2011 at 11:22 pm
Yes very nice, thanks NHK
VikingQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 3:04 am
I guess you can’t please everyone but even after a HD channel is added, moaning still!!!!!!!! Moaning because you can’t record the SD version yet people have been ASKING FOR THIS!!!! Dear lord!..
BBC Won’t admit to what we all are aware of and thats a fact which we all are going to have to swallow! Complain to the BBC (Mis) Trust but they will do the same as the BBC Complaints department and that is show you just how much of your licence fee was used for them all to gain a B.A in BS!!
But the BBC know the PQ difference is there for all to see and surprise surprise, Globecast, who do the sat uplink for NHK World HD do allot of the uplink for the BBC HD Worldwide channels in Europe… Oh the irony!
ianQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 5:03 am
Silly question but how do can you work out what the pq is being displayed at on a foxsat hdr?
Overall very happy with this latest addition to the FS platform, well done to all concerned for making it happen and may it continue to grow in strength. Does anyone know If any bangla channels are joining Freesat? Also what’s the latest on the electric sofa channels.. are they ever going to join?
zammoQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 5:10 am
Silly question but how can you work out what the resolution is on a foxsat hdr?
Overall very happy with this latest addition to the FS platform, well done to all concerned for making it happen and may it continue to grow in strength. Does anyone know If any bangla channels are joining Freesat? Also what’s the latest on the electric sofa channels.. are they ever going to join?
zammoQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 6:43 am
As regards BBC HD, it seems vary depending what they are broadcasting. eg Sport and gardening progs seem very good quality.
AlanQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 8:23 am
Been watching this whilst having my breakfast. Must say I’m very impressed with the picture quality. Well done to all those involved
Would be nice to see an HD channel section on the guide now as I feel that some people may be missing out when new channels are added.
JustinQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 8:41 am
I agree – that’d also give them an opportunity to put the SD version back on
MuzerQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Briliant picture the best I ever seen and I couldn’t see what the difference was before but now I can exe lent can’t praise the picture quality enough hope more channels come on board in hd great
MartinQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 9:20 am
I think with BBC One HD, you have to be very careful when differentiating HD programs from upscaled versions. I have the Technisat HDFS and it tells you when a program is being upscaled. But if you are checking out the BBC HD channel preview or watching landscapes and nature programs in HD, these look fantastic.
Lee110581Quote
May 10th, 2011 at 9:38 am
It’s great to see more HD content on Freesat but I think it’s time for the word HD to be put in levels. Certain platforms & broadcasters promising full HD when we all know it really isn’t. Eg , UHD – Upscaled HD , HHD – High HD , FHHD – Full High Quality HD. Something like this for example I think would be a super idea, and to be fully honest they would only be a a couple of FHHD quality at the time of writing. Are we just expecting a little too much? Or are we getting too fussy? Maybe were all just getting too spoilt…
TonyQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 10:04 am
Must agree with previous posters – excellent picture quality – Hope BBC is taking note!
DaveQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 10:09 am
BBC HD quality on Freesat is limited by what they can fit on Freeview HD. Both platforms have to be the same quality according to the BEEB (why) that is why Freesat is saddled with HD lite. Perhaps we should have a royal wedding every day then the BEEB can give us the quality we deserve but only at the expense of dropping the BBC HD channel previews and showing a still caption. Keep complaining to the BBC trust also Ofcon(m). Both these bodies claim to be responsive to public opinion.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 10:14 am
I’m going to sound ungrateful here, but a Japanese channel in HD even an English language one is a bit underwhelming. I’ll get kicked by everyone on here for saying that, I expect. Don’t get me wrong, I’m delighted to have more HD channels on Freesat – it’s very good news, however we really need more mainstream channels to come on board (Five – although I won’t watch that, either) and more of the Channel 4 stable – Film 4, for example…
I’ll get my coat.
AndyQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Fantastic news! NHK quality excellent.
Graham HallQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 11:04 am
Fantastic news!! Just watched NHK. excellent quality.
Graham HallQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 11:20 am
Another HD channel is great news,more the merrier.Its not a channel I watch on a regular basis,but the picture quality is superb compared to the BBC channels.Id like to know when Five HD is coming to Freesat,also E4 and More 4 and Film 4.
Al HoldenQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 11:31 am
I don’t believe there is a More4 HD at the moment. If I remember correctly, there are currently no plans for the rest of the Channel 4 channels to get their HD variants on Freesat, but this may of course change.
MuzerQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 11:34 am
All good in my view, more than Freeview, but to reflect on some views that more mainstream channels appearing in HD would be better or the missing 5 SD channels.
I don’t know if anyone else has noticed but the momentum for Freesat has somewhat slowed down recently, whilst HK HD is great news, I think Freesat needs to score something big, the latest HD channel while very welcome, will hardly rock the other platforms out there and get people considering or noticing Freesat as “the” platform of choice.
Just my view, as I said all good.
OskaQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
@40 Muzer wrote:” If I remember correctly, there are currently no plans for the rest of the Channel 4 channels to get their HD variants on Freesat, but this may of course change.”
Neil seems to know otherwise and he is usually right. Freesat will end up with many more HD channels than bandwidth limited Freeview and better qualiity ones as demonstrated by NHK HD.
I’m pretty happy with the current HD offering on Freesat. The cheapest HD package on $$$ky is £30 a month. When interest rates start going up again $$$ky will loose subscribers in droves.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
One of my favourite channels. Excellent standard of reporting and really interesting programs such as China Wow! and the Japanese Kitchen. Would be even better if CCTV (China News or whatever its called now) joined Freesat.
Noticed last night that the NHK epg was out by an hour.
barrieQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
There is only More4 without a HD version in the Channel4 family!
E4HD and Film4 HD soon maybe!
ianQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
I’d love to see Film4 HD and currently they are not tied into Sky!
Lee BQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
@35 Richard, it’s very sad to see that freesat has been saddled with the same picture quality as the bandwidth limited freeview HD, I think both services should be the best they can be. Is the BBC still showing the high bitrate versions in Scandinavia and are the UK tax payers paying for this?
I’ve got some shows still saved from the old high bitrate days and they really show the level of detail the BBC can kick out, the current bandwidth limited version is just a joke really.
Lee BQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
I suggest we start to encourage everyone – all forums, consumer and trade magazines, technical bodies, etc, when talking about BBC HD, to refer to BBC HD lite. The original debate around picture quality with the BBC was based on encoders and bit rates, and however passionately argued, was always at the mercy of some level of subjectivity. However the latest revelations of only 1440 horizontal pixals, rather than the full 1920 is completely objective – representing as it does, only 75% of the picture detail of a full HD picture. If HD lite becomes part of the standard language when referring to the BBC’s HD offerings, then it’s possible that someone in authority might eventually take note and address their shortcomings. Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge than I could start up a web site – would be good to have ‘No to BBC HD lite’ (suitably blurred!) ‘Yes to Full HD’ (pin sharp), and ‘I watch BBC HD lite’ (again suitably blurred), badges, car stickers and tee-shirts etc to promote the cause beyond the pages of forums like these. Only then is the BBC likely to sit up and take notice.
Jonboy1959Quote
May 10th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
@Lee
BBC Scandinavia and BBC America are 1920×1080 but I don’t know if they are FTA/FTV or behind a pay wall.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 7:10 pm
@Jonboy1959
“start up a website. badges, car stickers and tee-shirts etc”.
All very good ideas. Will you put up the cash to do it all? Or shall we ask BBC HD Lite to front the money?.
bigalQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
@49 – defeated already – long live BBC HD Lite!
Jonboy1959Quote
May 10th, 2011 at 7:18 pm
I have a Humax Foxsat – HD and have tried to automatically update this channel to 1080 HD with no success and channel 209 still shows 576. Please advise what I am doing wrong. (Have only recently purchased this box and I am highly satisfied and pleased with Freesat and the Humax box)
patsyQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
@50 Jonboy1959 – perhaps the cheaper option would be to pay for the DNS change for this site to joinBBCHDbashersonfreesat.co.uk
Admin – how much would that cost? £14.40 or £19.20 ?
Steve
Steve LQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
@patsy.. If your Humax hasn’t received the update message and given you the option to rescan to get NHK World HD then, on the remote control press the menu button which is on the bottom left of the remote, the onscreen menu will be visible now, using the up and down buttons scroll down to the picture of a satellite dish, press select, that will highlight the option ‘Freesat Tune’ press select again, you will either have your post code on screen already or will have to enter it and then press select and that will begin the new scan and thus giving you NHK World HD.
Remember to save the search results aswell!
ianQuote
May 10th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
What the BBC Broadcast in terms of HD is an affront to the standards of HD to be honest.
We all see the quality that Channel4HD has to offer and ITV1HD (Granada version) which is one of the best also and then we take a look at the BBC, a world renowned broadcaster and they offer such a shambolic excuse for HD and try to BS a way through it all the time!
Good luck with the campaign.. Because they will still fob you off!
ianQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 2:04 am
Too bad there’s no Japanese audio track for bilingual stuff
ChrisQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 8:00 am
NHK World is “hugely popular”? Perhaps for tsunami coverage but will it continue?
I have no objection to an HD channel, though it’s a shame that Sky / Freesat can’t come to some timeline where EVERY MPEG2 channel must transition to AVC/H264 (which needn’t be HD) so they’re not wasting space broadcasting two streams where one could do.
AdamQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 8:26 am
Due to SD receivers, they’ll still be broadcasting MPEG2 for a while yet.
MuzerQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 11:24 am
Ian many thanks much appreciated and it worked.
patsyQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 11:48 am
Admin. Can you create a poll where Freesat viewers can vote on the picture quality of the BBC HD service and then forward the results to whoever might take any notice at the BBC?
John NaylorQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@John Naylor
We will be producing a poll shortly comparing the HD quality.
adminQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
@John Naylor
Trouble is no one at the BBC would take any notice as they seem to be deaf to public opinion where technical matters are involved. IE They know best leave it too us. They must feel guilty though after upping the quality for the royal wedding.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
@ John Naylor & the majority..
Have a look here… This has been posted before but for all who missed it….
http://hdcampaign.kk5.org/
Good Luck !
TonyQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@ John Naylor and anyone else who thinks agrees that the picture quality is sub quality, you might like to take a look at this thread where a couple of BBC fanboys are ganging up against the poster who who’s trying to bring the failings to everyone’s attention and improve the picture quality through feedback:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1472193
Al (Original)Quote
May 11th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
Tony: The group campaining for improved HD quality would stand to be listened but their website leaves a lot to be desired. I’ve spent time wading through it and whilst I agree wholeheartedly with everything they say, the overall HTML presentation could be much better, they could even buy a domain, something like “www.bbchdbitrate.co.uk”!! Seriously though, I doubt the BBC would still listen which is a real pity as they should be the bastians of quality. ITV now hold that crown in Public Service Broadcasting and I take my hat off to them for some of the excellent examples of HD quality I’ve ever seen (even more so in the Granada region).
I watched a documentary about a region of Japan on NHK last night, the PQ really was mindblowing and even production was of a very high standard which is more important in the world of HD broadcast.
NeilQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
@64 Neil
http://www.bbchdbitrate.co.uk
There you go mate.
bigalQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Muzer I know they’ll broadcast in MPEG-2 for a time yet. What I’m hoping for is not an instant switch but a timeline. It could be 5 years hence which probably exceeds the service life of most stbs anyway so most people would be switched over by the time it happened. Same for DVB-T for that matter. Even as far as SD goes, the switch would free up a huge amount of bandwidth, or allow stations to give better quality / audio with the space they’re allotted.
AdamQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
Interesting info in the C4 annual report released today.
“In addition, plans are advanced to extend our reach further to the
Freesat platform”
http://www.channel4.com/media/documents/corporate/annual-reports/Ch4_Annual_Report_2010_FINAL.pdf (p92)
Now that can be interpreted in various ways but it has to be good for the platform no matter what comes out of C4 in the end.
Ok admin – get ferreting!
RossQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
@Ross
I have a good idea what is coming, but unfortunately am under non-disclosure so will have to keep perstering them to let me announce more info.
adminQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
I read some time ago that an executive from C4 stated they were in discussions with freesat regarding 4OD joining the platform.
RussQuote
May 11th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
64 – bigal: Wow, impressed!! You must work for an ISP then??
66 – adam: when you talk about bandwidth constraints, in Freesat terms this is only in relation to the 2D spot-beam capacity. If you look at Linowsat at 2A and 2B Txp’s you’ll find some with loads of capacity, S4C’s being one of them which has this sole service on it! Come 1N’s arrival, this whole bandwidth issue will be behind us.
In terms of the C4 Report I think they see the platform for future expansion, I’m off to have a read through parts of it now.
NeilQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 2:41 am
After having a bit more time to read and digest the C4 Annual Report, my guess is that in this particular instance this comment relates to 4OD which would be a good addition.
NeilQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 10:51 am
About time Freesat news on 999 was updated. It still says 4HD to join the line up in April and this is 12th of May.
I have posted the same on Freesat’s FB page.
STV on 103 is a disappointing 704×576 and looks poor compared to ITV London on
977 at 720×576. The extra resolution is very noticeable.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 11:45 am
@70 Neil
I don’t work for an ISP. I can’t remember if it was my Auntie or Uncle but one of them told me “Never to disclose who your employer is”.
Sorry.
bigalQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
bigal: I was only blagging, wouldn’t have expected you to say anything anyway! I, likewise would never disclose my employer but do work within the broadcast industry.
NeilQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
I do wonder how many work for a broadcaster or the industry on here and actually know what is coming from Channel4 in terms of what they will be bringing to the platform!
4OD is the obvious one given that it is plastered over screens during breaks as often as possible! But its not just OnDemand content they want to place on Freesat. Channel4 are not stupid, they know what Freesat can offer them as a broadcaster and that is huge reach.
I won’t reveal whom i work for either! But its not Channel5 LOL
ianQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
Not that I find much of interest on the new Japanese HD prog, but the HD quality is su[perb-come on BBC get your crap HD quality up tp par.
footyQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
Ian: I agree, on-demand-wise I’m convinced that comment, being in the final section, following talk of 4OD is discussing that same issue. C4 see the IPTV delivered future which is, I guess, why they are pushing the 4OD service so much.
I think it’s good C4 are getting more involved with the platform now as their hands have been tied by $ky in recent years.
Footy: Was watching a good documentary about the Danube Delta on NHK World this afternoon. They do, obviously, show a lot of Japanese orientated programming but have some worldwide factual based stuff too, looks spot-on in HD!
NeilQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
I’d be interested to see what hd channels people think have the best picture quality which have the worst. Maybe a site vote.
Lee bQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
I believe admin is looking in to a vote on this.
NeilQuote
May 12th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Poll created on the left hand side; let me know if you would prefer it to be worded differently.
adminQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 1:25 am
My votes gone on NHK!
NeilQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 1:58 am
NHK World HD and Channel4HD for me are just stunning in PQ, ITV1HD (the granada version) is just behind and the BBC well… Not even what you could call HD, its super SD and thats it!
ianQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 7:49 am
I’m surprised how many people have voted NHK on the Picture Quality Poll as my experience shows CH4 HD to be even better.
Programmes like “The Event” have excellent quality on 4 HD. Maybe we’re all just watching different things.
Addition of NHK HD though is great news.
Al (Original)Quote
May 13th, 2011 at 10:40 am
@ Neil 64
Yes , I totally agree with you its not the best site but I do see the point they are trying to get across . I hope with more people complaining they may eventually have a re-think. It’s not good when just about everyone notices how poor it really is . It can’t be going down too well at BBC HQ with all the complaints they are receiving . As for NHK & Channel 4 you have to give them credit cause they have had it right from day one…Awesome quality. Not checked out Granada Hd yet , but sure I will in the coming days.
TonyQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Going by the poll as it stands at 10.45 today the BBC must be pretty pleased with themselves Ahead of ITV1 and only 1 vote behind CH4. 12% think BBC 1 HD has the best HD quality.
Admin could you change the question to which HD channel has the best picture quality when showing HD material ie not upscaled or similar.
How about another poll. Which HD soap has the best picture quality on Freesat.
@Neil
Thanks for that. Looking forward to Freesats bright future.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 11:21 am
@Richard Crichton
I don’t personally think it will matter how I pose the question, many (non-techies) will vote based off what channel they prefer, after all, some may not even watch the other channels in HD. I’m trying to find a way of allowing you to vote them in preference!
adminQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 11:38 am
@Admin
If they don’t watch the other channels how can they possibly vote on which one has the best HD picture quality? Still the truth will out.
” I’m trying to find a way of allowing you to vote them in preference!”
Good idea.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 11:38 am
Looking forward to the Astra 1N launch on June 29th (ish). That should be very good for the future of Freesat with higher transponder strength and room for many more SD and HD channels.
Astra 2D 28e 39W beam center 51dBW (in a spot) launch 2000.
Astra 1M 19e 150W beam center up to 53dBW (Western & Eastern Europe) launch 2008.
Astra 1N will be the same type of satellite as Astra 1M.
Astra 2D is clearly a geriatric.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
” I’m trying to find a way of allowing you to vote them in preference!”
The good old Alternative Voting system
!!
NeilQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
My vote based on pure HD Picture quality goes to NHK & C4HD, both excellent examples of how to do HD right, maybe the BBC should get some tips of them. I wonder what bitrate they use against the BBC’s 6mbps+ effort.
Lee BQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
@ Admin
Maybe the question should of been…
Which Hd channel do you think comes bottom in picture quality….
I’m sure then the findings of this pole would be a lot different.
TonyQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
I used to think STV HD was the best when it first launched but the new deal with ITV has forced STVs quality to be in line with ITVs. NHK is the best by a long shot. Eurosport is in talks with Freesat about carrying 3D for sporting events (probably for the French Open or Wimbledon) and they are currently checking Freesat’s transponder. There is also the possibly of some HD content for the rest of us.
mediamanQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
@84. Tony.
As you say its not the best site but the purpose behind it outweighs the poor design.
That factor alone was enough for me to pay for the Domain
http://www.bbchdbitrate.co.uk
In the hope that the BBC will bow to the TV tax payers pressure.
I have no connection with the site my Domain name points to.
bigalQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
NHK picture quality really is the best by a long way. It’s not just how clear the picture is, it’s the colour, contrast, and skin tones that always seem to be perfect. I thought my new TV was to blame for the red faces in some programmes and then others were not so bad even on the same channel. But what ever you watch on NHK the picture is always incredibly life like. Maybe the Japanese use way superior cameras because unlike our HD it’s very consistent.
CliveQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
There must be some red faces at the BBC by now
as it’s clear to see that their HD is inferior.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
I agree with those who find C4HD and NHKHD to be the best PQ.They are both clearly superior to both BBCHD and BBC1HD.(on my Humax Foxsat JD box)
Incidentally, how do you know what the bit rate of the transmission is?
I can’t find any information on this.
peterhbQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 7:10 pm
I will agree that C4′s PQ is very good, production-wise it’s got good results too. In Granada-land ITV1HD’s PQ matches C4′s, the BBC’s though, well… enough said.
I notice the beeb have more HD commissions now, those ‘Missing’ and ‘Animal 24/7′ programmes in the morning are now HD. Although I noticed it looked sharper I had to actually press the EPG info button to confirm, something with HD you shouldn’t have to!
NeilQuote
May 13th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
It is stunning that after all this time and the constant complaints and forum discussions, the BBC still insist we are all wrong and they have it ‘right’!
The only thing stopping the BBC coming out and saying finally ‘we were wrong, you was right, here is BBC HD and BBC One HD in (Industry min standards) 1920×1080 and a min set bitrate of 12mbps is… PRIDE, and nothing more! They don’t want to look like U turn-ers and take criticism from the likes of Which! and JoinFreesat, Cnet and a-like, all of which have said that the BBC are not meeting EBU HD standards and have excuse after excuse yet can perfectly deliver the HD output across Europe at the standard set!!
We can only dream.. And mean time have to deal with BBC HD/Super SD broadcasting!!
ianQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 9:03 am
@Admin I wonder if the poll would have been better just with BBC HD rather than 3 BBC HD channel choices as it might be people are more inclined to vote for their favourite HD channel rather than HD for comparison qualities sake by broadcaster.
Al (Original)Quote
May 14th, 2011 at 9:32 am
@96 Peterhb
You just press the staus buton if you have a Technisat (£99 at Amazon) and it gives you a full technical readout including current bitrate.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 9:38 am
Re:Poll What ITV HD London or Granada? They are two different resolutions. London is 1440×1080, Granada is1920x1080.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 9:44 am
@Richard Crichton
No point, we need the polls to apply to the larger audience. Chances are viewers live with which ever region they are given and don’t go looking for one with better PQ, so the votes would be purely on the region used, nothing else. It is much the same with the current poll too, but with a slightly better chance of a more accurate measure.
adminQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 9:47 am
Re:bitrate @96
Try this http://www.linowsat.de/cgi-bin/lsat.cgi?0282-10847-V-2050-0-0
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 10:15 am
Sign up for a free basic account at linowsat and get yesterdays bitrates.
10847 13.5.2011 BBC 1 HD 8160, BBC HD 8507, ITV1 HD london 5756
10936 13.5.2011 ITV1HD Granada 10271
The poll should list Granada and London ITV1 HD separate as the bitrates are vastly different apart from the different resolutions.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 11:14 am
@ Richard104
Can you show Nhk & Channel 4 bitrates just to see the difference?
Cheers
TonyQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Here’s a Question, does the BBC only up the bitrate on certain programes. When watching Doctor Who the HD quality is not so good, but when showing Dancing on Ice and other programes alike the HD quality seems fantastic, or am I imagining things here, and if so why sould we pay the same license fee while the BBC choose which programe should have the better bitrate, anybody notice this to.
monkeymaniacQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Am I the only one wanting a 日本語 audio track on bilingual? I’ve left Japan a few years ago and really miss having my language on TV.
ChrisQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
@monkeymaniac #106
BBC uses a variable bitrate mode, if scene requires more bitrate, it can go as high as 16 mbps, I guess people didn’t notice that, the bitrate you see at 8 is average, some scenes go as low as 4mbps when nothing movies like scoreboard and such.
ChrisQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
What I’ve noticed with the BBC is the production leaves a fair bit to be desired. Certain programmes look great whereas others just don’t have that wow factor, I’m wondering if this is deliberate? Not that I’m a fan but I put Gardeners World on last night whilst flicking through the channels and noticed that is an example of very good HD, comparing the BBC2 simulcast there was a clear difference in quality and sharpness, something you don’t see with, for example, programmes like Eastenders.
NeilQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Science Zero on NHK is well worth watching, it will be good to see this in HD.
EdmundQuote
May 14th, 2011 at 7:10 pm
I’ve noticed some of NHK’s programmes don’t tally up with EPG listings too.
NeilQuote
May 15th, 2011 at 8:24 am
@Chris 108, I think the problem is that although VBR (Variable Bit Rate) improved the picture on BBC HD, it never restored the previously seen quality largely because the average bit rate is set too low in my opinion.
I’d like to see the average at the EBU recommended 11mbs with maybe the max at 20+mbs so as to allow a little more headroom for sports and other fast action.
Al (Original)Quote
May 15th, 2011 at 8:26 am
As for NHK, watched a bit today.
The video reports were average for HD but the studio shots surpassed ALL the other channels by some margin. Very little to no sign of any facial softening software and very clear sharp image.
Well done NHK HD, you put BBC HD channels to shame.
Al (Original)Quote
May 15th, 2011 at 9:00 am
Eurovision on BBC1HD looked pretty good last night, just shows how good HD can be when the EBU is directly involved!
NeilQuote
May 15th, 2011 at 11:39 am
The EPG for NHK World HD on Humax FoxSat HDR channel 209 is definitely wrong & in no way tallies with listings given on NHK’s site:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/tv/schedule/index.html
or indeed with NHK World added to channels on Radio Time site. I reckon it is out by 1 hour, plus it misses out many of the smaller shows & gives incorrect time slots for many others.
Perhaps site admin could contact NHK World on the viewers’ behalf to try & sort this? As it is setting a program to record off the EPG is totally useless & completely undermines the whole point of the Freesat listing!
A real shame when the picture quality is so stunning, best on Freesat IMHO.
jumpingbeansQuote
May 15th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
@105 Tony
NHK HD max 10002, min 9997, avg 10000 kBit/s
Channel 4 HD max 9117, min 9014, avg 9040 kBit/s
Bitrate is only part of the story. HNK is DVB-S, Ch4 is DVB-S2.
Both are 1920×1080 whereas the BBC uses 1440×1080.
ITV Granada uses 1920 but ITV London uses 1440
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 15th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
@112 Al (Original)
I agree, average is too low but I was just pointing out that people think it’s 8 mbps all the time.
ChrisQuote
May 16th, 2011 at 9:21 am
@ 116 Richard,
Thanks for that , by looking at all the results , they seems to be quite a difference from one station to another , I Wish they would all use 1920 x 1080 and an average of around 10000 bit rates . This would sort out the inferior pictures and make a lot of people happy !
TonyQuote
May 16th, 2011 at 9:42 am
Cheers for that Richard, I agree lots of factors play a part, but looking at some of the old BBCHD stuff I have recorded when 20000 kBit/s was used it’s a world apart from the current SD+ version. I’d be happy if the BBC just used the EU recommended HD bitrate.
Lee BQuote
May 16th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
1 Channel changed today, can’t see which one it is.
Mark SQuote
May 16th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Is site admin still monitoring the thread, if so could you please take a look at post 115?
jumpingbeansQuote
May 16th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
@jumpingbeans
Not sure I’ve seen any other reports of this happening; have you tried a factory reset on your Humax?
adminQuote
May 16th, 2011 at 10:40 pm
@122 admin:
Freesat posted on their Twitter feed that they noticed the problem and are trying to resolve it.
MuzerQuote
May 16th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
Help !! .. I know this isn’t the right subject for this topic .. but I can’t find anything that fits it … i’ve had my humax foxsat hd box for 3 years now with no problems at all.. but yesterday we had to unplug everything to move tv as we were painting the room .. when we plugged everything back again a short while later, we noticed multiple flickering horizontal lines on the tv screen.. (quite faint but very noticeable).. we’ve checked all connections .. satellite .. scart.. power .. hdmi etc.. incase anything was loose but this made no difference.. when we switch humax box off the lines disappear.. tv is on freeview now as analogue has been switched off in our area (grampian).. i’ve done a factory reset with box but lines are still there .. any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated! ..
lizQuote
May 17th, 2011 at 9:21 am
@Liz, make sure any power cables are not touching/too close to any of the other leads, my wife once taped a power lead to the scart lead (to make it neat!) and it caused this kind of problem.
Lee BQuote
May 17th, 2011 at 9:33 am
@Tony #118, Full 1920 x 1080 and 10mbs bit rate would probably result in a worse picture!!!
You need to realise that if you up the resolution you massively increase the amount of information to be encoded – I believe from the current position to 1920 x 1080 its almost 2x as many pixels. Therefore if the current encoder isn’t producing superb HD at current resolution and you were to double the pixel content but only increase the bit rate by 2 mbs its likely you’d end up with more compression artefacts and a softer picture. What is really needed is an increase in average bit rate at current resolution to at least 11-12mbs and at 1920 x 1080 to 13-15mbs average. Those are guessed figures but based on what we’ve previously seen from the Royal Wedding and from Sky’s offerings.
@Admin, I think you missed my poll comment above. I think it was a mistake to include more than one BBC HD choice for 2 reasons:
1. People are more likely to be tempted to vote for their favourite channel rather than Broadcast related choice based on quality
2. It splits the vote which if 1 occurs provides a false result and means the BBC effectively come 2nd in the pole which I don’t think is the result reflected in most of the views here. How? because by giving more than choice, not only have you possibly confused people between favourite channel voting and broadcaster voting but you also put yourself in a position where the BBC vote is really the sum of all of the votes over all of their channels by means of the split which means in actual fact the BBC have 27% (13% +14%). I wonder if the same result would have been seen had there only been one BBC HD choice?
Al (Original)Quote
May 17th, 2011 at 9:52 am
@ 126 Al (Original)
Thanks for clearing that one up….
I seemed to be getting more confused the more figures I see ! lol . . .
TonyQuote
May 17th, 2011 at 10:04 am
@Al (Original)
I’m not sure I agree just because I think viewers will instinctively pick their favourite channel anyway, without comparing them based on substance rather than quality. However, I do understand what you mean so have revised the poll (started again) to vote based on broadcaster, so put your votes in again.
adminQuote
May 17th, 2011 at 10:14 am
Thanks Ian.
The results may well come out the same but at least this way I think we can feel more confident that it accurately reflects people’s broadcaster views rather than channel views and its more clear cut result wise when the results aren’t split over multiple same broadcaster channels.
Al (Original)Quote
May 17th, 2011 at 10:56 am
@ 123 thanks Muzer, we now have another problem on the EPG for channel 209 in that the hours of 07:00-16:00 are totally blank for each day
jumpingbeansQuote
May 17th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
@ 125 Lee B .. thanks for the advice Lee B .. I think that’s fixed the problem
.. fingers crossed lol … thanks again !
lizQuote
May 17th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
@131 Liz, glad to assist, I’d hate lines all over the screen as well!
Lee BQuote
May 17th, 2011 at 11:45 pm
When I was investigating running new cables round my house I found some useful advice re routing the cables. It is best not to have any power cables close to either data or coaxial cables due to the magnetic field from the power cable. However when it is unavoidable make sure the cables cross at right angles to each other and never run them close in parallel. Another bit of advice was to ensure the cables are shielded.
Kevin Ver1Quote
May 18th, 2011 at 2:35 am
How many times is that poll going to change!
Can we have a poll for the best poll on the best poll for the best HD channel offerings for the best HD poll please?
ianQuote
May 18th, 2011 at 8:13 am
Is this poll an example of AV? A case of moving the goal posts.
Kevin Ver1Quote
May 18th, 2011 at 10:38 am
BBC voted best HD from a UK broadcaster. Shock horror. Has BBC policy been vindicated or does it just show that polls are nonsense.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 18th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
@ 136 Richard Crichton
I guess that NHK WORLD HD would not be counted as a UK broadcaster.
Even so, In my opinion there are better quality HD broadcasts from CH 4 and certain ITV 1 areas than the BBC’s efforts.
bigalQuote
May 18th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@137 bigal
It makes me wonder how many votes have been diverted from CH4 and ITV Granada to NHK and what the results would be if NHK was excluded.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 18th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
JML Cookshop –> JML Choice today, according to Digital Spy.
MuzerQuote
May 18th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Something I posted on Digital Spy but no one seemed interested:
“I feel that I can see a difference compared with when it was on an astra transponder. When it was there it was 13mb/s and over.
Now down to 9.2mb/s. Its like the bbc picture quality thread all over again.
Maybe if and when they add more channels to the same transponder they can stat mux back up to around 13mb/s?
Can you guys tell the difference because I can. ”
[2nd post clipped]
“Does anyone have access to the exact figures from Linowsat for the previous satellite position?
CH4 HD is not fully launched yet, but do we have grounds to complain? as appose to the BBC where they are awnserable to the fee payers?
Are CH4 likely to give 2 hoots about it’s viewers?”
me_plus_oneQuote
May 18th, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Above was talking about CH4 HD.
me_plus_oneQuote
May 18th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
CH4 are a PSB and get free spectrum so they should give a hoot .
Never saw 4HD on $ky so can’t comment about a decline in picture quality but if they have lowered their bitrate I would expect a decline in quality.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 19th, 2011 at 8:51 am
Really pleased with NHK’s picture quality and very much looking forward to the two programmes, on Sunday, about mountains. Should be some stunning images!
Ian BowerQuote
May 19th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
Sharp and NHK Successfully Develop 85-Inch Direct-View LCD Compatible with Super Hi-Vision, a World First
http://is.gd/DOr4bA
ChrisQuote
May 19th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Off topic a tad…
ASTRA 1N ARRIVES IN KOUROU FOR LAUNCH ( early July 2011. )
“Luxembourg, 19 May 2011 – SES (Euronext Paris and Luxembourg Stock Exchange: SESG) today announced that the ASTRA 1N satellite designed and manufactured by Astrium for SES has arrived at the European space Center in Kourou, French Guiana, in preparation for its launch by an Ariane 5 vehicle early July 2011.”
http://www.ses-astra.com/business/en/news-events/news-latest/index.php?pressRelease=/pressReleases/pressReleaseList/11-05-19-1/index.php
Phil OwensQuote
May 19th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Are Channel 4 funded by BBC licence fee money?
I think that the free sat people are saying that 4HD is great quality because they have not seen it before so to speak.
The people who had it on sky would have likely watched other HD channels in terms of audience share.
Need some hard birate figures from linowsat. for previous to the tansponder change.
Having said this CH4 HD was stat muxed with the other sky channels on the transponder at the time. Where as now its just on its own, at the moment.
me_plus_oneQuote
May 19th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
@146
No not as far as I know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_4#Funding
I only have the free account with linowsat which means I cannot go back to when CH4 HD was stat muxed with other $ky channels.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 19th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
Channel4 is state owned but commercially funded and nothing from the Licence fee goes the way of Channel4. They would love that obviously, but no!
ianQuote
May 21st, 2011 at 3:05 pm
I found some an old files I had recorded pre transponder move.
CH4 HD – Come Dine With Me.
I extracted the video information of this file and this episode showed the following: [most info removed]
Video:
Bit rate : 13.117 Mbps
Audio:
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
I do have other programs at higher rates. CDWM is one of the lower ones.
This would go someway to backing up that it has been infact reduced, but most prob due to technical reasons. Stat muxing etc.
What would be the move from here, to try and restore this?
me_plus_oneQuote
May 21st, 2011 at 4:06 pm
The BBC Picture Quality issue, and the BBC’s Trusts reaction to it, has been a whitewash. I don’t care what encoding they are using, the PQ is now way near an acceptable standard.
NHK and Luxury channel prove the point – stunning pictures!!!!!
Paul Eaton put a lot of effort in campaigning for a better bit rate etc., but nothing has changed.
Plus, even if Freeview is inadequate to cope with 1920×1080, why does the satellite resolution need to be the same? Lowest common denominator!!!
It is a long running disgrace, especially from (i) the BBC and (ii) a company paid for by us!
How can the people working for BBC HD be proud of what they achieve when they go to work each day? Being well paid makes up for it I suppose.
MJVQuote
May 21st, 2011 at 4:10 pm
BBC HD Picture Quality Campaign on Facebook.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=215423710963
MJVQuote
May 22nd, 2011 at 12:02 pm
BBC HD can look very good or very poor so it must be down to how the shows are produced.
According to the Freesat poll BBC has the best HD on Freesat (from a UK provider) so all the moaning campaigns are apparently without much justification.
Why not have compaigns about how poor ITV HD and CH4 HD is instead..
The BBC have reasons for doing what they do and how they do it and PQC on FB does not provide any more bandwidth on Freeview or Astra 2D.
BTW Luxury LIfe (formerly Luxe) TV closed down a while ago and was pre-encoded with no fast moving shots so why refer to that.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 22nd, 2011 at 5:07 pm
@ 152 Richard Crichton
“BBC HD can look very good or very poor” etc. It could also be due to the variable bitrate encoding the BBC now employ and the fact that BBC HD channels in the UK broadcast at 1440 x 1080.
Certain ITV 1 HD regions (Granada for example) broadcast at 1920 x 1080.
It should be noted that BBC HD broadcasts to Europe at around 16Mbps with a resolution of 1920 x 1080. Are we in the UK the ‘poor relations’ again?.
I believe the poor BBC HD PQ is to do with the fact that Freeview is unable to match the possible bandwidth available to satellite and the beeb HD channels have to be of consistent quality on both platforms.
bigalQuote
May 22nd, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@ 152 Richard Crichton CONTINUED
“so all the moaning campaigns are apparently without much justification”.
Sorry, I do not agree with that statement. You are saying that ALL the ‘Moaners’ are wrong and the BBC are right. Given what I said about bitrates and picture resolution in my post above do you expect us all to conceed that the public who pay the BBC need to visit Specsavers.
Have a look at NHK WORLD HD. You must be able to see, as I can, that it blows BBC HD out of the water. BBC, The finest broadcaster in the world?, Not anymore as far as I am concerned.
bigalQuote
May 23rd, 2011 at 11:21 am
@154 bigal
I was pointing out the joinfreesat poll results. I didn’t say I agreed with them. I was being ironic hence the three smiles.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 23rd, 2011 at 11:27 am
@153 bigal
I know all that. Granada ITV HD looks better than ITV London HD. etc I have both on my Technisat EPG (Don’t ask) so can easily compare them.
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 23rd, 2011 at 7:58 pm
I’ve been reading that BBC hd on freeview has increased res to 1080p and the switching between 1080i and 1080p is causing issues for Sony tvs, anyone noticed this on freeview hd?
Lee bQuote
May 24th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
@ 157 Lee b
The BBC has introduced dynamic picture switching to improve picture quality during program broadcasts, this has unexpectedly created a problem with an audio drop out, on the 2010 and 2011 Sony Bravia TV’s.
Check this out: http://www.sony.co.uk/discussions/thread/124842?tstart=0
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 24th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
Here’s another item on the subject of BBC HD and the problems it’s caused on Sony TVs:
http://www.radioandtelly.co.uk/news/2011/05/bbc-sneaks-in-full-hd-content.html
Anyone noticed an improved pq on BBC HD?
Al CatrazQuote
May 24th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
My Freesat Technisat can’t do 1080p. Think this is for Freeview HD only?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/researchanddevelopment/2011/04/software-upgrade-for-bbc-hd-on.shtml
Richard CrichtonQuote
May 24th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Yes freeview HD currently, but it might indicate changes ahead for freesat hd as well.
Lee BQuote
May 24th, 2011 at 11:23 pm
Re: CH4 HD bit rate issue
Would like to email someone at Channel 4 for a direct response from them.
Someone at at technical level preferably, Just the right person and not to get fobbed off by viewer services for example.
Anyone know any potential names/contacts?
Has anyone else seen any responses from Channel 4 on this matter? Assuming of course that there have been questions posed.
thanks.
me_plus_oneQuote
May 27th, 2011 at 10:49 am
Posted the above on Digital Spy for a wider response.
me_plus_oneQuote