Join Freesat


Jan 04 2013

A e-petition has been set up on the HM Government website (not by us) to encourage the government to address the issue of the lack of UKTV channels on Freesat, partly owned by the BBC, and thereby paid for by our television license.

If the e-petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Government are suppose to discuss in the House of Commons, so get signing and lets see if we can make a difference. The current signatures stand at a lonely 6!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/39304

Responsible department: Department for Culture, Media and Sport

UKTV is half owned by BBC Worldwide, which in turn is owned by the BBC. As the BBC is paid by all owners of Television sets, Radio sets and Computers it is deplorable that UKTV is largely not available on Freesat and only five of the channels are available on Freeview.

We demand that a service that we are paying for is made available in it’s entirety on the Free to Air formats of Freeview, Freeview HD, Freesat and Freesat HD.

The channels (and their HD equivalents) include the following and any future additions under the UKTV umbrella:

Alibi, Blighty, Dave, Eden, Gold, Good Food, Home, Really, Watch and Yesterday.

We also demand that these channels are immediately removed from Sky’s paid subscription service and that any BSkyB action to claim compensation is immediately rejected as they knowingly and willingly entered an agreement that they knew should not have been allowed to happen.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/39304

142 Responses to “Sign the petition to force the UKTV channels onto Freesat”

  1. John Naylor Says:

    Thanks admin! I’ve signed.

  2. Keith Says:

    I have also signed. I am happy to support anything that helps this to happen.

  3. stigbeater Says:

    signed lets hope this works…

  4. Lawrence Pearce Says:

    Surely it’s a commercial decision as to whether or not these channels join the Freesat platform? I’d like to think that the government has better things to do than debate whether or not a handful of minority TV channels are included in Freesat’s program guide. It is in any case a relatively simple matter to select these channels via the “non Freesat” mode in any Freesat receiver.
    As you may gather, I will not be signing the petition!

  5. Neil Says:

    Lawrence Pearce said:
    Surely it’s a commercial decision as to whether or not these channels join the Freesat platform?I’d like to think that the government has better things to do than debate whether or not a handful of minority TV channels are included in Freesat’s program guide. It is in any case a relatively simple matter to select these channels via the “non Freesat” mode in any Freesat receiver.
    As you may gather, I will not be signing the petition!

    If anything it raises the issue of how some of these channels, 50% owned by BBC Worldwide, continue to be behind a paywall on the DSAT platforms but FTA on Freeview. As we’ve discussed at length on here, it’s probably all contractual but interesting that the issue might get raised. It would be nice to get 100,000 signatures but think it could be a tall order!

  6. John H Says:

    Lawrence Pearce said: … It is in any case a relatively simple matter to select these channels via the “non Freesat” mode in any Freesat receiver…

    Really? Are you sure about that? Let me try…

    Guess what? It doesn’t work with the channel list described above. I do agree with you that it’s a commercial decision on whether they join Freesat, but the above channels should be available unencrypted FTA over satellite.

    I have signed, obviously.

  7. fred Says:

    Lawrence Pearce said:
    It is in any case a relatively simple matter to select these channels via the “non Freesat” mode in any Freesat receiver.

    I challenge you to demonstrate this working.

  8. fred Says:

    *If* this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the government *might* discuss the matter in parliament, but they won’t simply because of the commercial interest in UKTV. What about a petition to allow people to take products from UK supermarkets without having to pay, doesn’t that sound ridiculous? Is it any different to this petition? No.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see all the UKTV channels FTA on free[view|sat] and I really hope I’m proven wrong, but seriously, a petition to number 10 isn’t going to achieve anything.

  9. Keith Cobby Says:

    I would prefer to support a petition demanding that the BBC transmit their channels in HD. I think Freesat’s main aim this year should be to encourage more channels in HD.

  10. Derek (Original) Says:

    The fact that BBC Worldwide has significant income other than that from the Licence Fee (sales/licencing of programs to foreign broadcasters and sales of CDs/DVDs/Blurays etc.) may mean even if this e-petition gains the required number of signatures, it may not reach the parliamentary debate stage. However, nothing ventured, nothing gained. It may serve to increase the public profile of freesat though.

  11. Brian Says:

    I don’t see the point in signing petitions that have facts wrong and can immediately be torn to shreds:
    “As the BBC is paid by all owners of Television sets, Radio sets and Computers…”, no it isn’t, Radio licences went out 40+ years ago, and Computer owners who don’t have a TV set are only required to have a TV licence if they watch live TV.

    BBC Worldwide is run on a commercial basis without any licence fee support, so it is not “a service that we are paying for” – in fact the profits that it generates help fund the BBC and keep the licence fee down. Furthermore, it’s only a 50% stakeholder in UKTV so what would the other party get from making everything free?

    The argument that everything BBC Worldwide does should be available to all would mean that we should all be able to claim free boxsets of BBC series, Lonely Planet guides, etc.

    As for the BSkyB agreement being one “that they knew should not have been allowed to happen.”, I’m not sure how this assertion is based on contract law.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see some of these channels on Freesat – realistically the ones that are on Freeview (once they can get out of contractual restrictions about satellite carriage with BSkyB), but I think that poorly termed petitions like this do more harm than good, because they can immediately be discredited.

  12. Richard Crichton Says:

    It’s got nothing to do with the Government unless the UK has suddenly become a dictatorship overnight. They don’t have the power to force any channel onto any platform so I won’t be signing this misguided petition.

    Lawrence Pearce said:
    Surely it’s a commercial decision as to whether or not these channels join the Freesat platform?I’d like to think that the government has better things to do than debate whether or not a handful of minority TV channels are included in Freesat’s program guide. It is in any case a relatively simple matter to select these channels via the “non Freesat” mode in any Freesat receiver.
    As you may gather, I will not be signing the petition!

    Wrong they are encrypted so cannot be seen in non Freesat mode with a Freesat branded box.

  13. LSS110581 Says:

    UKTV is a commercial enterprise and despite being 50% owned by the BBC Worldwide, they need the revenue from encryption services such as Virgin and Sky. Not only that, but some of the programs available are not actually produced by the BBC and the license fee has not paid for these. I find it highly unlikely that all UKTV channels will make it free-to-air. If any platform will gain more UKTV channels, it will be Freeview as Sky is a joint shareholder along with the BBC, ITV and C4.

  14. Sensible Paul. Says:

    Well put Brian (11). You were a lot more restrained than I wuold have been :)

  15. @scotstart Says:

    Worth a crack!

  16. Irish Bob Says:

    Sorry – you have to be a British Citizen or UK resident to sign.. :(

  17. r.crichton Says:

    Good idea we should all have free blueray box sets because we pay the licence fee.
    yeah happy new year all joinfreesaters and admin.

  18. admin Says:

    I’m in two minds about this subject but wanted to post up to raise awareness and discussion; plus to see how many sign ;)

    I feel that whilst we pay a license fee, it doesn’t cover such circumstances and ultimately UKTV have made a contractual decision (a long time ago) to hide behind a pay-wall on satellite to gain the most revenue from subscription sales. Given that UKTV have had financial problems in the past, I suspect that these channels probably wouldn’t still exist it if wasn’t for them being pay-tv on Sky, where most of their revenue comes from.

  19. Dave Says:

    Just signed it, 128 signatures so far.

  20. gingercol Says:

    I gladly welcome all new channels to the freesat platform.But other than the few people that cannot get freeview (due to location or just don’t want it) we can all get Dave ,Really and Yesterday ( which are the UKTV channels on freeview) after the digital switchover.The point of signing the petition will increase the awareness of the potential for extra viewers thereby increasing the advertising revenue. But the extra advertising revenue would have to be more the the revenue from sky , virgin and other subscription tv suppliers .

  21. Richard Crichton Says:

    gingercol said:
    I gladly welcome all new channels to the freesat platform.But other than the few people that cannot get freeview (due to location or just don’t want it) we can all get Dave ,Really and Yesterday ( which are the UKTV channels on freeview) after the digital switchover.The point of signing the petition will increase the awareness of the potential for extra viewers thereby increasing the advertising revenue. But the extra advertising revenue would have to be more the the revenue from sky , virgin and other subscription tv suppliers .

    34% of the population of Wales only get the three mulitiplex public service channels PSB 1,2 &3 on Freeview (Freeview Lite). Not really a few people then.
    England 7%, Scotland 15% Northern Ireland 20% ditto.

  22. conor Says:

    I signed this and hope wee get all uktv channel and more hd also also sky paywall need to be made unlawfull

  23. admin Says:

    conor said:
    I signed this and hope wee get all uktv channel and more hd also also sky paywall need to be made unlawfull

    haha, how can a pay-wall be illegal, it is a subscription service!

  24. Saltydawg Says:

    I’m signing it, but what a badly written petition. I agree with having the same channels that are on FREEVIEW but we can’t possibly make ALL of the UK TV channels come to Freesat/view.

  25. alexander Says:

    One way to bring UKTV to freeview is to close the topup group and minor shopper channels. This would allow UKTV to transfer more of it’s channels to Freeview.

  26. Rosco Says:

    Richard Crichton said: 34% of the population of Wales only get the three mulitiplex public service channels PSB 1,2 &3 on Freeview (Freeview Lite). Not really a few people then.
    England 7%, Scotland 15% Northern Ireland 20% ditto.

    Last figures I saw it was 52% for Freeview Lite here in the Borders!

  27. Rosco Says:

    alexander said:
    One way to bring UKTV to freeview is to close the topup group and minor shopper channels. This would allow UKTV to transfer more of it’s channels to Freeview.

    Removing channels that you dont like / watch eh? ;) Do you want to pay the compensation for removing them after they have paid their (expensive) carriage fees?

  28. Dave w Says:

    Great idea i will be signing now .

    I recon like the last 2 christmas they have surprised us
    With new channels so UKTV channels for December 2013

    :-)

  29. Bernard Geoffrey Says:

    I hope this works for us all……Bernie

  30. NIKNIK Says:

    I signed as well but still only at 239. We need to get connected.

  31. NIKNIK Says:

    Hey – now 248 – it is moving up….

  32. Tony Trent Says:

    Well done for setting this up. Thanks.

  33. ian carty Says:

    for irish and non british residents

    the above could benefit everyone in ireland and beyond
    a tip
    give your non work e-mail address
    your address is london
    your postal address is w12 7rj, that is the address of the bbc in london
    you are living and a resident in the united kingdom

    if it happens more quality free to air digital tv channels on freesat and if you are leaving sky

  34. Martin Says:

    Ye me too I just signed every little helps I am getting in to freesat now only watching freesat channels now

  35. Alison Fairgrieve Says:

    Re message from Lawrence Pearce.

    Please explain how I can get other channels through the non Freesat mode. There are times when I trawl through absolutely everything on Freesat and find nothing I want to watch or have not seen before.

  36. admin Says:

    Alison Fairgrieve said:
    Re message from Lawrence Pearce.
    Please explain how I can get other channels through the non Freesat mode. There are times when I trawl through absolutely everything on Freesat and find nothing I want to watch or have not seen before.

    You can’t get the UKTV channels; the original poster is very much wrong!

  37. soldierboy001 Says:

    For under £100, 98.5% of the population can get freeview and this includes the cost of an SD freeview box (Dave,Yesterday etc.do not broadcast in HD) freesat viewers can view these channels without putting them on the freesat platform so why would the goverment (If it could) make these comercially run companies put them on the freesat platform. The large majority of new TV sets come with freeview in the set so as most people on this site have the ability to get freeview why are you so concerned about getting it on freesat you would only duplicate your viewing channels.
    These are the same people that must have a smart phone, tablet,net book and lap top just so they can tell people they can read their emails etc. all day and anywhere

  38. Dave Says:

    It is stupid that Freesat and Freeview are not amalgamated as I was obliged to get Freesat in order to compensate for the lack of channels I was receiving under my Freeview package! I don’t know how we can all be charged the same licence fee when some areas are restricted to a limited number of channels( in my case 19 Freeview ). Also the fact that BT Vision advertises Sky Sports 1 and 2 as well as ESPN but cannot deliver in this area due to the lack of Freeview reception is also a bone of contention with me. Anyway I support this petition and hope that justice prevails.

  39. Andy Bell Says:

    Just on a point of fact, the UKTV channels don’t get any TV Licence money even though BBC Worldwide has a stake in them. The whole point of BBC Worldwide is that it’s a business whose profits go back to the BBC.

    I agree it would be great if the Freeview channels from UKTV were also on Freesat but that’s not for David Cameron to decide. Are Dave and Yesterday Free to View on Sky or only on packages?

  40. Freddie Smith Says:

    The last part of the petition that demands removal of all UKTV channel from Sky subscription is a bit silly. Being part of Sky subs helps fund the channels. A better option would be to have a set of UKTV channels that are FTA and common to Freesat and Freeview with a premium set that are unique to Sky / Virgin Media subscibers.

  41. admin Says:

    Just to re-iterate, the petition hasn’t been created by me (joinfreesat) and for the most part, is badly presented and full of errors, but still interested to see how many signatures it gets…

  42. Andy Bell Says:

    So what’s missing now? UKTV, Quest and a couple of music channels?

  43. Keith (original) Says:

    I too have signed the petition, however, I share and agree with the reservations of Admin and others concerning the phrasing and expectations of the petition. Nevertheless, it’s the best we’ve got/have.

    Maybe this may eventually point things in the right direction. At a minimum, it would be good to have parity between Freeview and Freesat.

    @9, another Keith – that would be a good idea.

    @37 – Dave HD does exist – but not on Freeview.

  44. soldierboy001 Says:

    Keith original if you read the text you would understand I was refering to freeview as I was talking about a freview box. DUH.

  45. neil Says:

    done, thanks admin

  46. conor Says:

    every body put it on facebook and twitter and other sites wee have 359 signings

  47. Elaine Says:

    Hi I have signed. Just a bit of info BBC Worldwide is the side of the BBC that makes the money, not the BBC UK. But yes we should be able to view these channels. I do not want or wish to have to pay Sky to watch UK channels

  48. Jim Says:

    I would have thought that being free to air on Freesat would give them larger viewing figures allowing them to charge more for the adverts.

  49. Trevor Harris Says:

    What a misguided and badly constructed petition.

    UKTV is an independent commercial joint venture between BBC Worldwide, the commercial arm of the BBC, and Scripps Networks Interactive Inc.

    I expect the reason these channels are behind a pay wall is that it would be uneconomic to make them “freely” available. The BBC could buy out SNI but would have to increase the licence fee which the government would not allow.

    To misquote a famous politician “If you want a free television service you are going to have to pay for it.”

  50. NIKNIK Says:

    Dear message 37 (soldierboy) – I understand the point you make but in my area we get about 12 Freeview channels and these are not the common BBC and ITV main ones but a somewhat bizare subset. I am based in mid-Wales so much of Freeview is relayed (through regular air transmitters – not via cable) and hence does not carry the same choice as most main stream transmitters due to lower bandwidth (I am told) which is probably why many of us value the Freesat offering just that little bit more. So, please consider us in the minority before deciding not to sign. Thanks,

  51. steven1w Says:

    I have signed now stands at 452

  52. brian mayo Says:

    I’ve signed, what a great wheeze, despite over 200 signatories in the last 24 hours there is a long way to go to meet the target, BUT making UKTV aware of the action may be enough for them to consider the matter, which is probaly the motive behind the iniative, but well done those who had the Ooomph to do this.

  53. fatbloke Says:

    Sod the UKTV channels, give me channel 5 HD!!

  54. Averil Says:

    I also have signed just hope we get enough

  55. Phil Says:

    I signed 542 now, not holding my breath…

  56. George Says:

    Thanks for setting this up, I hope this works for us all.

  57. Alan Says:

    I have signed, hope it succeeds. Who knows stranger things have happened.

  58. Joe Says:

    soldierboy001 said:
    For under £100, 98.5% of the population can get freeview and this includes the cost of an SD freeview box (Dave,Yesterday etc.do not broadcast in HD) freesat viewers can view these channels without putting them on the freesat platform so why would the goverment (If it could) make these comercially run companies put them on the freesat platform. The large majority of new TV sets come with freeview in the set so as most people on this site have the ability to get freeview why are you so concerned about getting it on freesat you would only duplicate your viewing channels.
    These are the same people that must have a smart phone, tablet,net book and lap top just so they can tell people they can read their emails etc. all day and anywhere

    Do you bother to read the posts that precede yours?
    98.5% may be able to get Freeview but a huge section of the population of Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland and a significant section of England cannot access the commercial multiplexes because their signal does not come from a main transmitter but from a relay transmitter. Hence they do not get the UKtv channels.

  59. alexander Says:

    One way to encourage UKTV, QUEST and the music channels is to use receivers that can accept FTV cards for use in the UK only.

  60. Clem Dye Says:

    I’ve signed, but I doubt that you’ll get the required number of signatures. All of the UKTV channels should be available on Freeview and Freesat, but I doubt very much whether we’ll see any movement here. With Freesat largely providing the equivalent of the Freeview Lite service, people automatically linking satellite TV with Sky, a real lack of Freesat kit and nothing in the way of Freesat advertising, it’s surprising that Freesat has survived thus far. I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that the Murdoch empire has won the battle for satellite TV. I don’t see Freesat going the distance unless there’s a big change to the channel line-up, with more channels available, which of course is where this petition idea came in …..

  61. r.crichton Says:

    There are twice as many freesat channels and no shortage of kit so don’t know what you are on about. Freeview boxes will disappear soon as all tvs have built in freeview now.

  62. alexander Says:

    Another area could be RTE and TV3 to finally make a move and broadcast from ASTRA 2e and 2f. once the above realise the advertising then they could change their minds.

  63. Rich Says:

    I agree that it’ll probably get ignored by government as it’s a commercial thing, however, if nothing else, it might show UKTV who, in reply to anyone who’s ever tried just say “we’ve no plans to launch on Freesat”, that there is indeed a bloody market. I don’t give a smeg about Sky and contracts; if other commerical channels have launched on Freesat, and UKTV already have Dave et al on Freeview, it’s just plain wrong of them not to be on Freesat.

    So, perhaps if nothing other than to show how many folk support the idea, even if a few of the facts are wrong, I’m signing it!

  64. alexander Says:

    Don’t forget some irishmen can receive both SOARSAT & FREESAT. I believe Wales can receive SOARSAT but no one else.

  65. Andy Says:

    Brian said:
    I don’t see the point in signing petitions that have facts wrong and can immediately be torn to shreds:
    “As the BBC is paid by all owners of Television sets, Radio sets and Computers…”, no it isn’t, Radio licences went out 40+ years ago, and Computer owners who don’t have a TV set are only required to have a TV licence if they watch live TV.
    BBC Worldwide is run on a commercial basis without any licence fee support, so it is not “a service that we are paying for” – in fact the profits that it generates help fund the BBC and keep the licence fee down.Furthermore, it’s only a 50% stakeholder in UKTV so what would the other party get from making everything free?
    The argument that everything BBC Worldwide does should be available to all would mean that we should all be able to claim free boxsets of BBC series, Lonely Planet guides, etc.
    As for the BSkyB agreement being one “that they knew should not have been allowed to happen.”, I’m not sure how this assertion is based on contract law.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see some of these channels on Freesat – realistically the ones that are on Freeview (once they can get out of contractual restrictions about satellite carriage with BSkyB), but I think that poorly termed petitions like this do more harm than good, because they can immediately be discredited.

    100% agree with this. Well said, Brian. I’d love to see some UKTV channels on Freesat, however I won’t be signing exactly for the reasons outlined by Brian which were my gut feelings on reading this article on joinfreesat.

    As is often the case with these things, the footprint of the satellite makes a big difference when it comes to securing rights to broadcast different programmes. It’s the reason given for some UKTV channels being on Freeview which, by definition, is only available within the UK.

    Freesat will be well aware of the technicalities and complexities of this issue and I feel sure that they aren’t sitting around doing nothing about it. If the channels could be on Freesat, they would be and no amount of us whinging about it is going to make one jot of difference.

  66. robert Says:

    People outside the UK should be able to sign it

  67. Rosco Says:

    alexander said:
    One way to encourage UKTV, QUEST and the music channels is to use receivers that can accept FTV cards for use in the UK only.

    Why? theres plenty of narrow beam capacity at 28E nowadays. Or are you one of the expats outside the uk beam range ;)

    Because its only ever expats who bring up the idea of encrypted transmissions!

  68. Alan Says:

    robert said:
    People outside the UK should be able to sign it

    No, they should not.

    It’s a petition on the UK governments website so only people from the UK should be allowed to sign it.

    Not that I am going to sign it anyway – as has been stated above UKTV is owned by BBC Worldwide and so nothing to do with the licence fee. The licence fee is for BBC One, Two, Three and Four as well as the Radio stations. – nothing else.

  69. daveac Says:

    Signed :-)

  70. gingercol Says:

    Richard Crichton said: 34% of the population of Wales only get the three mulitiplex public service channels PSB 1,2 &3 on Freeview (Freeview Lite). Not really a few people then.
    England 7%, Scotland 15% Northern Ireland 20% ditto.

    the percentages you are quoting are for area not population .

  71. Richard Crichton Says:

    I am thinking of starting a petition to keep UKTV off Freesat. :-) Most have already seen all their last decade tired old BBC programmes so don’t need to see them all again on a loop with adverts inserted every 12 minutes. Lets keep the commercial clutter off Freesat. There is plenty of this sort of recycled codswollop on the other channels already. What I want is more HD from the Ch 4 stable and 5HD plus BBC2 BBC3 BB4 BBC News all in HD. Lets have more good new HD programs free from those pesky adverts. Frack SD, Frack adverts every 12 minutes.

  72. Richard Crichton Says:

    gingercol said: the percentages you are quoting are for area not population .

    What makes you think that?

  73. Richard Crichton Says:

    Richard Crichton said: What makes you think that?

    http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051678

  74. don mawdsley Says:

    I agree that more channels,must be free because not everyone wants or has the money to pay for sky,virgin etc. In the rush to get companies involved in the satellite tv share out/ giveaway much harm was done to ordinary tv licence payers.
    Yes I can hear all the big sattv subscribers snortting in derision but,its the ones who are lead by stupid offers who end up paying more than adds say and have to pay per view for some extras.HMGov let the horse out before the stable was even built, let alone had doors on ! They must do as the e-petition asks or the slope will get steeper and more slippy with back slapping grease.

  75. Neil Says:

    This subject has certainly got people talking. It’s up to 746 signatures now, three more since refreshing the page again three mins after first refreshing it.

    We’re not going to move mountains here but this raises important awareness to UKTV there is demand for their channels, maybe even some BBC Execs will see it and as a well known supermarket says “every little helps”.

  76. Rosco Says:

    don mawdsley said:
    I agree that more channels,must be free because not everyone wants or has the money to pay for sky,virgin etc.

    Why?? Multi channel tv is not a right, its an addition to your lifestyle – if you can afford it then you can subscribe to Sky or VM – if you cant or wont pay then you do without the extra stuff.

  77. Rosco Says:

    Neil said:
    This subject has certainly got people talking. It’s up to 746 signatures now,

    So only 99,250 to go – give or take a few either way. :D

    Its got no chance whatsoever of getting to the required 100k – most folks really dont give a toss about the UKTV channels being pay on sat.

  78. Neil Says:

    Rosco said: So only 99,250 to go – give or take a few either way.
    Its got no chance whatsoever of getting to the required 100k – most folks really dont give a toss about the UKTV channels being pay on sat.

    Yep, I think we can be sure it’s not going to get to 100k signatures but impressed that in three days nearly 800 people have actually signed it.

  79. ChrisK Says:

    We would do much better lobbying the advertisers who try to sale their wares on these channels by letting them know that these channels have a very low audience dew to its pay wall.

    I wrote to my bank last year telling them of my disapproval of their support of F1 as they ( F1 ) are putting a lot of the races behind a pay wall and I for one will not be watching any more, so save your / our money.

    One person doing this will make no head way but tens of thousands complaining to the likes of Tesco and Asda would IMO.

    Anyways, I dont see Hamilton or Button any more when I sign into my bank accounts. LoL.

  80. steve 1 Says:

    It’s a shame freeview dont have a forum like this and you cant beat freesat music channels freeview are sh*t

  81. Tony Says:

    Happy New Year All..

    If I’m honest , if the channels did come about I would only be interested in Gold.
    They are full of repeats and nothing “new”. Let’s have something new with new programming. We’ve seen it all before. This exercise seems a little pointless in my eyes I’m afraid. S*y can happily keep them !!

  82. Richard Crichton Says:

    Tony said:
    Happy New Year All..
    If I’m honest , if the channels did come about I would only be interested in Gold.
    They are full of repeats and nothing “new”. Let’s have something new with new programming. We’ve seen it all before. This exercise seems a little pointless in my eyes I’m afraid. S*y can happily keep them !!

    Spot on post.

  83. Richard Crichton Says:

    You need to be well off if you want everything HD. That is totally wrong. I didn’t pay for a HD telly to watch SD. It shouldn’t be used by Sky as a leverage to get subscribers. ie if you want it in HD you have to pay Sky or be part of the underclass who refuse or can’t pay their high prices. All new channels should be HD or don’t bother at all. When 625 lines came in 405 lines was dropped. DVD is on its way out now Blu-ray is here etc. When cars came in horses were dropped so go figure channels.

  84. fluffy Says:

    Brian said:
    I don’t see the point in signing petitions that have facts wrong and can immediately be torn to shreds:
    “As the BBC is paid by all owners of Television sets, Radio sets and Computers…”, no it isn’t, Radio licences went out 40+ years ago, and Computer owners who don’t have a TV set are only required to have a TV licence if they watch live TV.
    BBC Worldwide is run on a commercial basis without any licence fee support, so it is not “a service that we are paying for” – in fact the profits that it generates help fund the BBC and keep the licence fee down.Furthermore, it’s only a 50% stakeholder in UKTV so what would the other party get from making everything free?
    The argument that everything BBC Worldwide does should be available to all would mean that we should all be able to claim free boxsets of BBC series, Lonely Planet guides, etc.
    As for the BSkyB agreement being one “that they knew should not have been allowed to happen.”, I’m not sure how this assertion is based on contract law.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see some of these channels on Freesat – realistically the ones that are on Freeview (once they can get out of contractual restrictions about satellite carriage with BSkyB), but I think that poorly termed petitions like this do more harm than good, because they can immediately be discredited.

    The only sensible thing said on this ridiculous post

  85. Steve Says:

    “When 625 lines came in 405 lines was dropped.”

    Wrong, actually. BBC1 and ITV started broadcasting 625-line in 1969 but didn’t switch off the 405 line broadcasts until 1985. Unless your response is supposed to be sarcasm.

  86. Richard Crichton Says:

    Interesting that you do need a tv licence to watch BBC iPlayer etc live streams on a computer even if you do not have a tv.

  87. Ian Vallender Says:

    I’ve signed but I also believe if a sd channel is free then why is its hd equivalent encrypted for example E4hd. as for Channel5hd itv2 and so on also be.

    alexander said: Another area could be RTE and TV3 to finally make a move and broadcast from ASTRA 2e and 2f. once the above realise the advertising then they could change their minds.

    this is what I have to say about the Irish channels. its obvious they don’t care that much about the irish tv license fee payers Euro forcing them to have their Dishes at a completely different satellite to where all the other British and Irish channels are. don’t forget there already on 1n pointing at uk and ireland.

  88. Ian Vallender Says:

    I can’t believe I forgot everybody spread the word on as many forms of social media as possible and maybe something may happen

  89. Rosco Says:

    Ian Vallender said:
    I’ve signed but I also believe if a sd channel is free then why is its hd equivalent encrypted for example E4hd. as for Channel5hd itv2 and so on also be.

    The ITV 2 3 4 HD channels were started solely to try them as an additional money raining stream for ITV in an era of declining advertising revenue. The providers get a cut of the HD subscription revenue from Sky. The existing encrypted HD 4-family channels probably come under the same banner – as will More4HD when it launches in a few weeks time – we already know that one is going to be encrypted.

    C5 HD is different – thet one is ftv not full pay so it doesnt get any money

  90. Rosco Says:

    Ian Vallender said:

    ….Irish channels. its obvious they don’t care that much about the irish tv license fee payers Euro forcing them to have their Dishes at a completely different satellite to where all the other British and Irish channels are. don’t forget there already on 1n pointing at uk and ireland.

    Theres only two reasons the Irish channels stay encrypted on 28E – (1) Sky paid a lot of money to provide them with the satellite carriage in the first place, when they couldnt afford it (and may well still do so) (2) rights issues – RTE pay a small amount for the rights to provide popular series and sports to Ireland. If they went fta they would have to pay a lot more to cover the UK as well. Whats the population numbers? Ireland 6 million or so – UK 60 million or so.

    Thus the additional rights for these progs *just for going fta* would cost about 10x what they currently pay.

    RTE are pretty well broke – theres absolutely no chance of them going clear anytime soon.

  91. Matthew Says:

    All the UK TV channels being on Freesat would make paid tv redundant for the most part, if you like Sky Channels/Discover/Kids channels then you’d stay put, if you like the rest you’d go freesat.

    Could be brilliant.

  92. Rosco Says:

    What most folks dont seem to realise is that the alternative to encryption for the UKTV services is likely not fta, but closure for several of them.

  93. brian mayo Says:

    Well 4 days down the track & seems to be running out of steam already, although am in favour of more channels I agree re: “old dross” content of most of UKTV.
    re: fatboy & joe’s going at it & comments re: relay stations some positive stuff there & yes do read all posts before you go “ragging” off, it’s just not polite to do other you know, correspondents here should be singing together not against one another.

  94. Richard Crichton Says:

    Nice to see Taxi on CBS Drama five days a week. CBS drama is not on Freeview so should they start a petition to get the CBS channels on Freeview. I think not ditto UKTV on Freesat.

  95. Clem Dye Says:

    r.crichton said:
    There are twice as many freesat channels and no shortage of kit so don’t know what you are on about. Freeview boxes will disappear soon as all tvs have built in freeview now.

    By channel count sure, but ‘value’ channels? I think not. There a different selection of channels I agree, but in terms of matching Freeview (which the vast majoirty of the UK can receive), they don’t. Counting +1 channels doesn’t add to the list of available channels, and when I look at Freesat I don’t see channels that I really want to watch, other than those that I’d get with Freeview Lite. As for kit, can you buy a Panasonic Freesat box, or a Sony? No, you can’t, and Joe Public really only sees mainstream products in this arena. Freeview PVRs won’t disappear either — time-shifting is something that we all do — a single tuner TV won’t satisfy that. Perhaps when IPTV is mature, maybe.

  96. Big Al Says:

    Richard Crichton said:
    Interesting that you do need a tv licence to watch BBC iPlayer etc live streams on a computer even if you do not have a tv.

    But you can watch the ‘Non Live’ element of iPlayer without a tv licence.

    Is it so vital to see the likes of Eastenders ‘live’ when you can see it on catch-up a few hours later?

  97. admin Says:

    Big Al said:
    Is it so vital to see the likes of Eastenders

    Definitely not! I question the sanity of anyone that does watch it ;)

  98. Daniel Says:

    Perhaps a facebook campaign page or a twitter page may add numbers and support to this just cause

  99. Big Al Says:

    admin said: Definitely not! I question the sanity of anyone that does watch it

    So do I admin. I used Eastenders as an example because it seems to be a very popular BBC programme. To outline the reasons it is so popular would be going “Off Topic” so I will restrain myself.

  100. Richard Crichton Says:

    Big Al said: But you can watch the ‘Non Live’ element of iPlayer without a tv licence.
    Is it so vital to see the likes of Eastenders ‘live’ when you can see it on catch-up a few hours later?

    I don’t watch EE but I was making a point about needing a tv livcence to watch the live stream. I was aware you didn’t need one to watch the catch-up. How are they going to enforce it if you did watch the live stream. Not exactly the crime of the century is it. Perhaps they will deploy the thought police and check your ip logs then have six busies come round and arrest you.

  101. Richard Crichton Says:

    Clem Dye said: By channel count sure, but ‘value’ channels? I think not. There a different selection of channels I agree, but in terms of matching Freeview (which the vast majoirty of the UK can receive), they don’t. Counting +1 channels doesn’t add to the list of available channels, and when I look at Freesat I don’t see channels that I really want to watch, other than those that I’d get with Freeview Lite. As for kit, can you buy a Panasonic Freesat box, or a Sony? No, you can’t, and Joe Public really only sees mainstream products in this arena. Freeview PVRs won’t disappear either — time-shifting is something that we all do — a single tuner TV won’t satisfy that. Perhaps when IPTV is mature, maybe.

    The channels you watch are a personal choice and I prefer the ones not on Freeview but on Freesat. I have both platforms and was suprised how little is on Freeview when I got YouView recently after only having Freesat for years. I don’t watch the UKTV channels in case your wondering. As for kit Samsung make a Freesat PVR and a range of Freesat TV’s. Samsung is the biggest home electronics company in the world.

  102. Clem Dye Says:

    Yes, Samsung do make Freesat kit at present, but Sony stopped manufacture of their Freesat panels a while back, and Panasonic dropped their Freesat PVRs too, leaving just a few Freesat panels in their range. Not sure about LG. Big names, that people are aware of — try asking Joe Public if they’ve heard of Humax or Manhattan kit though. The point is, Freesat is not mainstream in the way that Freeview is, and unless something changes, manufacturers won’t bother making suitable kit. The range of channels on Freesat might be greater, but unless people get to hear about them they may as well not be there. As I said previously, people equate satellite TV with Sky, and unless Freesat gets a bigger marketing push, more channels that people actually want to watch (UKTV, E4HD, More4HD, etc.) I think that it will end-up very much as a minority platform, if it lasts, that is.

  103. ChrisK Says:

    Rosco said:
    What most folks dont seem to realise is that the alternative to encryption for the UKTV services is likely not fta, but closure for several of them.

    That would not necessary be a bad thing.

  104. Richard Crichton Says:

    Clem Dye said:
    Yes, Samsung do make Freesat kit at present, but Sony stopped manufacture of their Freesat panels a while back, and Panasonic dropped their Freesat PVRs too, leaving just a few Freesat panels in their range. Not sure about LG. Big names, that people are aware of — try asking Joe Public if they’ve heard of Humax or Manhattan kit though. The point is, Freesat is not mainstream in the way that Freeview is, and unless something changes, manufacturers won’t bother making suitable kit. The range of channels on Freesat might be greater, but unless people get to hear about them they may as well not be there. As I said previously, people equate satellite TV with Sky, and unless Freesat gets a bigger marketing push, more channels that people actually want to watch (UKTV, E4HD, More4HD, etc.) I think that it will end-up very much as a minority platform, if it lasts, that is.

    I’m sure Freesat will last. It’s really just an EPG provider, a joint venture bewteen BBC and ITV to provide a fill in for non Freeview areas which will always exist in thinly populated areas .They obviously need to cover their costs but are not out to make a vast profit like Sky is. Freesat is here to stay I’m convinced of that and even if it closes the boxes will still pick up the FTA channels so I’m not that bothered either way. Went to a big Asda a few weeks ago and there was a shelf full of Freesat kit for sale.
    BBC1 HD Wales and BBC1 HD Scotland start on the 14th on all platforms.

  105. Neil Says:

    Richard Crichton said: I’m sure Freesat will last.It’s really just an EPG provider, a joint venture bewteen BBC and ITV to provide a fill in for non Freeview areas which will always exist in thinly populated areas .They obviously need to cover their costs but are not out to make a vast profit like Sky is. Freesat is here to stay I’m convinced of that and even if it closes the boxes will still pick up the FTA channels so I’m not that bothered either way. Went to a big Asda a few weeks ago and there was a shelf full of Freesat kit for sale.
    BBC1 HD Wales and BBC1 HD Scotland start on the 14th on all platforms.

    The BBC won’t let it fail, in fact with the new T2 DTT Mux’s going live carrying more BBC and commercial HD services (C4 have committed to two) then as these interim Mux’s will only have around 63% UK coverage then Freesat will be needed by those wanting to enjoy the BBC’s services which will be then made available via HD but who don’t want to pay ‘the evil one’!

  106. Saltydawg Says:

    Hopefully the appointment of the Marketing Director for Freesat will help. How come its not been announced on here?

  107. Neil Says:

    Saltydawg said:
    Hopefully the appointment of the Marketing Director for Freesat will help. How come its not been announced on here?

    I wasn’t aware they had a new Marketing Director either. Who is he and what’s his background? Admin will probably know although may not be public knowledge yet?

  108. Paul D Says:

    Do what thousands of other people are now waking up and doing…..cancel your TV licence.

    It is not that painful to go legally licence free. Anything watched on catch up does not need a licence. Or if you want to carry on watching live TV then simply never respond to the Capita goons and there is nothing they can do about it.

    Think how many thousands of pounds you have given over the years to an organisation that protects peados, pays it’s hapless bosses £500,000 severance packages and then tries to resell us the stuff we paid to produce via this UKTV paywall.

  109. Anthony Says:

    Channels that are free on freeview and also available on satellite shouldn’t hide behind a paytv wall on satellite.

  110. Richard Crichton Says:

    Paul D said: tries to resell us the stuff we paid to produce via this UKTV paywall.

    I assume you mean Sky/VM by that.
    UKTV is free for everyone with DTT. It is Sky/VM who tries to resell us the stuff we paid to produce with the help of a certain former government isn’t it.

  111. Mark selby Says:

    ive signed i hope they will bring those channels to freesat

  112. Neil Says:

    Paul D said:
    Do what thousands of other people are now waking up and doing…..cancel your TV licence.
    It is not that painful to go legally licence free.Anything watched on catch up does not need a licence. Or if you want to carry on watching live TV then simply never respond to the Capita goons and there is nothing they can do about it.
    Think how many thousands of pounds you have given over the years to an organisation that protects peados, pays it’s hapless bosses £500,000 severance packages and then tries to resell us the stuff we paid to produce via this UKTV paywall.

    Think of the many millions paid to keep a great organisation like the BBC running. I have no issue whatsoever with paying my TV licence, it provides me great TV and radio, all subscription and ad free. If I were Prime Minister I’d raise the LF by an immediate £50/yr to cover losses and allow them to ‘take on’ the likes of Sky better in protecting what should be rightfully FTA.

    Licence fee dodgers should be caught and prosecuted, I know one who was close to being reported however funnily since his other half got a job at a Sky call centre then he decided he’d better go out and buy one!!

  113. Paul D Says:

    Richard Crichton said: I assume you mean Sky/VM by that.
    UKTV is free for everyone with DTT. It is Sky/VM who tries to resell us the stuff we paid to produce with the help of a certain former government isn’t it.

    GOLD is free on DTT?

  114. Paul D Says:

    Neil said: Think of the many millions paid to keep a great organisation like the BBC running. I have no issue whatsoever with paying my TV licence, it provides me great TV and radio, all subscription and ad free. If I were Prime Minister I’d raise the LF by an immediate £50/yr to cover losses and allow them to ‘take on’ the likes of Sky better in protecting what should be rightfully FTA.
    Licence fee dodgers should be caught and prosecuted, I know one who was close to being reported however funnily since his other half got a job at a Sky call centre then he decided he’d better go out and buy one!!

    Amusing that you call the BBC “subscription free” in a post where you say how happy you are to pay them £12 per month subscription.

    It is like orwellian doublethink.

    Why should someone who, for example, only ever watches the odd football match on ITV, have to pay £145 per year to a broadcaster he never watches? It is ludicrous.

    If a licence fee capita thug comes to my door I will remove their implied rights of access. Any subsequent visits from them will immediately be trespass and they will be removed by force. They can’t touch me and you know it.

  115. Saltydawg Says:

    Neil said: I wasn’t aware they had a new Marketing Director either. Who is he and what’s his background? Admin will probably know although may not be public knowledge yet?

    Neil, here’s the link to the new marketing director post

    http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/freesat-announces-new-marketing-communications-director/ (edited by admin)

  116. Neil Says:

    Cheers Saltydawg, interesting reading, hopefully with his background, particularly with BSkyB Paul Gilshan can help drive brand awareness as he’ll be fully aware of the broadcast market.

    Paul D: I’m not going to get in to an argument about the licence fee. It’s a tax like everything else, however it funds the BBC which I’m passionate about. If you want to see a world without PSB TV, go to the US and see the drivel put out on the numerous services over there, makes the BBC a shining star. I don’t like paying Tax to support Welfare and the NHS but have no say in that as have never claimed and seldom visit doctors or hospitals but have no say in that whatsoever. It’s a tax, pay it, end of.

  117. Tony Says:

    The licence fee would not even be in question if subscription tv wasn’t around. I fully support this fee it’s our own national treasure. If people want to look at it as a subscription fair enough but I would rather pay this (which we all have done for years) than pay over £60 a month for the top tier to s*y. If the BBC wasn’t around we would end up paying for every channel we watch which I know most people would not and could not afford. Thank goodness for the BBC, Freesat & Freeview for giving us great tv for very little.

  118. Paul D Says:

    Neil said:
    Cheers Saltydawg, interesting reading, hopefully with his background, particularly with BSkyB Paul Gilshan can help drive brand awareness as he’ll be fully aware of the broadcast market.
    Paul D: I’m not going to get in to an argument about the licence fee. It’s a tax like everything else, however it funds the BBC which I’m passionate about. If you want to see a world without PSB TV, go to the US and see the drivel put out on the numerous services over there, makes the BBC a shining star. I don’t like paying Tax to support Welfare and the NHS but have no say in that as have never claimed and seldom visit doctors or hospitals but have no say in that whatsoever. It’s a tax, pay it, end of.

    LOL at the idea of the BBC being a shining star. It is an old boys paedo network full of of overpaid trough-eaters. If the BBC is such a shining star with wonderful programmes then make it a subscription model…or are they concerned we won’t actually subscribe to watch the rubbish that is usually on there?

    To say that america just churns out drivel is preposterous. They have far better TV than us, just look at the real quality drama they get with HBO and their sports broadcasting is light years ahead of ours. And they still manage to have PBS without charging everyone for a licence.

    I will not pay and noone can make me.

  119. John H Says:

    Let’s start a petition on who agrees with Freetards like Paul D. I won’t be signing :-)

  120. Richard Crichton Says:

    I gladly pay the licence fee to be rid of pesky commercials every 12 minutes or so. I believe PSB in the States has commercials and also relies on donations from the public to keep going so is not free really. There is nothing worse to watch than commercial tv in the US and the only good stuff is subscription based.If the BBC did not exist I would not own a tv at all.

  121. Richard Crichton Says:

    I didn’t think admin allowed links to that site. admin?

  122. admin Says:

    Richard Crichton said: I didn’t think admin allowed links to that site. admin?

    Link to the ‘dark side’ now removed, and replaced with my official posting:

    http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/freesat-announces-new-marketing-communications-director/

    Sorry for the delay.

  123. Richard Crichton Says:

    Paul D said: GOLD is free on DTT?

    Never head of Gold not having Sky/VM.Is that a tv channel :-) Don’t care if its on Freesat or not. Another retro channel with commercials every 10 minutes I suppose.

  124. Neil Says:

    I think my contribution with Paul is done here. Not getting in to an argument about the licence fee but nice to see Richard, John and Tony all back me up!

  125. Matthew Says:

    Very unlikely this petition will ever hit 10,000 signatures by Oct 2013 anyway yet alone 100,000

  126. Dave w Says:

    @112 Paul D … I did not know gold was free . Where and how please ???
    Thanks for any help ..

    Also I signed and I see freesat sold 2 million or more boxs why can we not get 100.00 signed up ? …….

  127. Dave w Says:

    Meant 100.000…….

  128. admin Says:

    Dave w said:
    Meant 100.000…….

    meant 100,000 ;)

  129. Paul D Says:

    Neil said:
    I think my contribution with Paul is done here. Not getting in to an argument about the licence fee but nice to see Richard, John and Tony all back me up!

    Yes, quitting while behind is always wise.

  130. Paul D Says:

    Dave w said:
    @112 Paul D … I did not know gold was free . Where and how please ???
    Thanks for any help ..
    Also I signed and I see freesat sold 2 million or more boxs why can we not get 100.00 signed up ? …….

    No, GOLD not being free was my point.

  131. Paul D Says:

    Richard Crichton said: Never head of Gold not having Sky/VM.Is that a tv channel Don’t care if its on Freesat or not. Another retro channel with commercials every 10 minutes I suppose.

    You have never heard of one of the very channels this blog post is about??? Do you post on random blog posts for fun?

  132. Paul D Says:

    Richard Crichton said:
    I gladly pay the licence fee to be rid of pesky commercials every 12 minutes or so. I believe PSB in the States has commercials and also relies on donations from the public to keep going so is not free really. There is nothing worseto watch than commercial tv in the US andthe only good stuff is subscription based.If the BBC did not exist I would not own a tv at all.

    That is you. I, on the other hand, only really own a TV so I can watch football matches. Tell me why I should pay for “Strictly Come Dancing” and Eastenders and all the other bilge when all I usually watch is the FA Cup and Champions league etc on ITV.

    I don’t pay and I won’t. You keep renting for a paedo ring if that suits you.

  133. admin Says:

    Paul D said:
    I don’t pay and I won’t.You keep renting for a paedo ring if that suits you.

    Ok, that is enough now thanks. Fair enough you don’t pay a license fee because you don’t like programmes on the BBC, but many do, and many follow the law as it currently stands to pay a license for watching live TV, no matter what channel it is on.

    As for your final comment; please leave that kind of gutter talk off this site. To suggest license fee payers like those in this discussion wish to support paedophiles is just incredibly immature.

  134. Rosco Says:

    Dave w said:

    Also I signed and I see freesat sold 2 million or more boxs why can we not get 100.00 signed up ? …….

    Because

    1) most folk really dont give a toss if the uktv channels are transmitted free or not

    2) a good proportion of those 2 million are second & thirds sets for folk with Sky

    3) only a tiny tiny proportion of the Freesat households venture onto this site & the others that have the e-petition link

    4) many of us that do visit these sites wont sign the petition because its badly worded & factually incorrect.

  135. Paul D Says:

    admin said: Ok, that is enough now thanks. Fair enough you don’t pay a license fee because you don’t like programmes on the BBC, but many do, and many follow the law as it currently stands to pay a license for watching live TV, no matter what channel it is on.
    As for your final comment; please leave that kind of gutter talk off this site. To suggest license fee payers like those in this discussion wish to support paedophiles is just incredibly immature.

    Yet, another one of your posters calling me a “freetard” is mature? Why didn’t you warn the person that said that? Hmm?

    I have actually been an avid reader and foillower of this blog since 2008. I don’t think I will bother again.

  136. Paul D Says:

    John H said:
    Let’s start a petition on who agrees with Freetards like Paul D. I won’t be signing

    I am quoting this to illustrate the kind of “mature” posts that the admin here wish people to make.

  137. Rosco Says:

    Paul D said: Yet, another one of your posters calling me a “freetard” is mature?Why didn’t you warn the person that said that?Hmm?
    I have actually been an avid reader and foillower of this blog since 2008.I don’t think I will bother again.

    Good – the blog can do without attitudes like yours on it.

  138. admin Says:

    Paul D said: I am quoting this to illustrate the kind of “mature” posts that the admin here wish people to make.

    I hadn’t spotted that one, but then sifting through hundreds of comments isn’t easy. Yours were easier to spot, as you posted 4 in a row.

    John H said:
    Let’s start a petition on who agrees with Freetards like Paul D. I won’t be signing :-)

    John H, please avoid personal insults, they are not wanted on here thanks.

  139. Paul D Says:

    admin said: I hadn’t spotted that one, but then sifting through hundreds of comments isn’t easy. Yours were easier to spot, as you posted 4 in a row.John H, please avoid personal insults, they are not wanted on here thanks.

    None of mine contained insults. Just opinions. But I realise they aren’t welcome here now.

  140. admin Says:

    Paul D said: None of mine contained insults.Just opinions.But I realise they aren’t welcome here now.

    You haven’t made any direct insults, but the suggestion you made was totally unnecessary and unwanted. Your participation on this website is welcome and I appreciate your viewing over the years, but please keep discussions on a mature level; you don’t want to pay the license because you don’t believe you should (and don’t like the BBC/their programmes), others do, it doesn’t have to turn into such a mud throwing match.

    Please, no more comments on this other than discussing the (questionable) petition; it is Friday night and I really wanted to escape working for a few hours!

  141. admin Says:

    Just to add, I’m proud of this site and all those that choose to visit daily and contribute opinions on topics posted, but it does take up a lot of time for zero gain, so the second this site constantly turns into another DigitalSpy (a slagging match combined with poor moderation), I’ll pull the comment section or site completely.

  142. Derek (Original) Says:

    admin said:
    Just to add, I’m proud of this site and all those that choose to visit daily and contribute opinions on topics posted, but it does take up a lot of time for zero gain, so the second this site constantly turns into another DigitalSpy (a slagging match combined with poor moderation), I’ll pull the comment section or site completely.

    It would be a sad loss should you feel you need to do that. The majority of readers/posters take part in mature/reasoned comment & debate and appreciate all the hard and sometimes thankless work you have put into keeping this site going. Let’s not let one bad apple spoil things for the rest of us. Long live joinfreesat!

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